Best Test: AUDI S6 vs BMW M5 vs Mercedes E 63 AMG

it's a different one...here's the link:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.autobild.de/&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dautobild%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG

It's because Audi has the best gearbox on the planet. To argue that fact would be stupid because BMW acknowledges that Audi's DSG gearbox is the best possible gearbox on the market.

Hell, Ferrari doesn't even come close to Audi's DSG with their F1 transmission

your right the SMG is not bad, but the herky jerky attitude needs to be fixed if it is to compete with the smooth shifting DSG.

I just want everyone to know that not all carsalespersons are as unintelligent and disrectful as BMWnovice.

BMWExpert, I can understand your passion for BMW, but your posts are quite frankly BIAS and insulting to fans of other car brands. Just telling you. ;)

I too love BMW, but let's be honest here. The S6 and E63 AMG are pretty hot and capable machines of their own. All these brands, Audi, BMW and Benz, have different ideas about sports cars and they implement them in them.

I'd be happy with anyone of them. I have no doubt that the M5 is the king amongst these, but in reviews, the only thing placing the cars in first and last is the opinion of the editor. Big deal. They like the Benz? So be it. A BMW fan will know that if they want some serious performance and dynamic driving, the M5 is the only choice. However, in everyday driving wherever, I'd say all these cars are equally matched.

1995, the passat and a6 are about as related as tigers and curtains.

fine then, my comparison was not as random as possible.

will, un homage to you.

the passat and a6 are about as related as a Lexus and unreliability. :)

bmwnovice

...let the fool rant so the world may know...

BMW530i
Well put, I agree.

1995e34

The A6 and the Passat have a grand total of ZERO parts. That is like saying the BMW 5 series and the Audi A6 are basically the same car becuase they have 4 wheels, 4 doors and a trunk, are withing a couple of inches in lenght and both have 8 cylinder engines. BTW, Auto Motor und Sport put the S6 abouve the M5, Automobile did the same.

honestly 1995e34, the a6 is the size above the passat.
the passat is the same size as an a4 (which it used to share a platform with), but it does not share anything with the current audi line-up.
the a3 and tt are based on golf floorplans, the q7 is based on a touareg floorplan (only shares 10% of parts though).
those are the only vw and audi cars that are related.
it is like saying a camry is exactly like an SC.
completely different.
and FYI, the a6 is 20 cm (1 foot 8 inches) longer than the passat, 3 cm wider, 1 cm lower, but interestingly weighs the same. and they only share 2 engines (the 2.0 tdi and 2.0tfsi, but in different tune).

Actually Rupert, you got you math wrong. The A6 is longer but not by that much.

A6 3.2 with Tiptronic Passat 3.6L 4Motion
Curb Weight - Automatic (lb.) 4012 3829
Curb Weight - Manual (lb.) No data No data
Wheelbase (in.) 111.90 106.70
Length (in.) 193.50 188.20
Width (in.) 79.20 71.70
Height (in.) 57.50 58.00
Track Front (in.) 63.50 61.10
Track Rear (in.) 63.70 61.10
Ground Clearance (in.) 4.60 5.20

The A6 is only 5.3 inches longer. However it is true that the two cars don't share anything (no 2.0 TDI on any VAG product here and no 2.0 TFSI on the A6 hgere) Also both are very good products, at the top of their respective classes.

Your right BMW Expert the BMW M5 SMG is such a flawed transmission when compared to the Audi S6's DSG that I would NEVER think of buying an M5 over an S6 much less an RS6.

I don't need a herky jerky transmission that can't shift smoothly in any car much less a sports-sedan.

The SMG was never liked when it came out, and while its clearly not as good as the DSG which I don't think its as bad as its been made out to be. However, BMW is working on a DSG-like transmission so perhaps they have conceded.

On a related note, the test is actually a bit silly because the S6 does not belong to that class. The RS6 does, and they should have waited until Audi brings it to market. Its like testing the old S500 against the S8 instead of the A8. Doesn't make a lot of sense..

Yes, the S6 is 'soft-core' when the M5 is 'hard-core'. The E63 happily finds a medium between the two.

It's good to see all three companies sticking to their own philosophies, rather than, say, Audi trying to 'out-M5' the M5.

For its age, the E63 does damn well. It grabs the others by the scruff of the neck and says "Look here, you little smart-arses. I not be the newest car out, but I got power and class and a vault-like build feel. You may like to show off your little LED's and SMG's, but I got BIG grunt and I'm not afraid to smoke it up at the Gentleman's establishment. You guys are too young to get in."

thanks logical making idiotic comments that every single editor, review, test and car enthusiast knows to be true: The fact that Audi has the best gearbox you can possibly buy with the SMG.

Get a grip of yourself logical, your never going to read that the BMW SMG is superior to Audi's DSG.

And all of this puts you in one category.... THE MINORITY.

The RS6 will be the car that will compete and defeat the two other competitors.

Hmmm.. Chewy, I see a trend here.

Forget AMG, Audi is the new straight-line champion.

The RS4 kicks the C55 and M3 in a straight-line.

The upcoming RS6 will make the E63 take a back-seat too.

If we look at regular cars though the S55 is faster than the S8 and the SL65 just stomps on just about everything.

At least Audi is gaining some ground.

I won't be in the Audi camp for much longer though...

GermanNut

The RS4 beats both C55 and M3 in STRAIGHT LINE and in the CURVES, and on the TRACK. The S55 also costs equal with S8 and the S8 is more. The S65 AMG should be compared with the Bentley Flying Spur, they both cost 160k+ and clear 0-60 in under 4.5 seconds. BTW, the S8 does 0-60 in 4.7 seconds.

my data is in metric, which i understand.
A6 Saloon 2.0T
Length 4916 mm
Width 1855 mm
Height 1459 mm
Weight 1520 kg

Volkswagen
Passat Saloon 1.6Fsi (yes really, 1.6)
Length 4765 mm
Width 1820 mm
Height 1472 mm
Weight 1520 kg
oh yeah.
there aren't 12 cm in a foot :S there are 30....
sorry bout that, i'm not used to feet and inches, being european.

anyway, the phaeton isn't an A8, the A8 uses an aluminium space frame, the phaeton a steel one.
they are built in different factories.
the passat is just spacious for its class, it is below the A6, same size as the a4 or camry.

Logical: There is....RS4....
And the new RS6 and S6 have a 40/ 60 rear biased Quattro so they have a complete different feel.
I know of a few 2003 RS6 with 550hp that will give your M5 a run for its money.

APR: Chip, full cat back and down pipes and more.
Stock turbos (93 octane mode).
MTM has one pushing 650hp in the Avant (Wagon) version.
The new RS6 will be lighter than the A6/ S6.
There will be later on a RS6+ to compete against the M5/ M6 CSL.

Well logical, have you ever heard the term it is best to learn from your mistakes?

Apparently not....


Yes, the previous RS6 was nose heavy and the handling was pretty awful. In a straight-line though it defeated the M5.

If I'm not mistaken the same characteristics that applied to the old RS6 also applied to the old (avant only) RS4 exclusively sold only in Europe.

Logical is it bothering you to see how Audi has clearly improved upon the previou RS4 with the new one. Not only are there no turbos, but Audi has a high-revving naturally aspirated V8. The exhaust not puts the M3's soundtrack down and the RS4 is just a better overall performing car.

The RS4 has better 0-60 (or any incremental) accleration than the M3, better track performance arund the Nurburgring, better skid-pad numbers, it may not handle quite as sharply as the M3 or brake as well but Audi has certainly improved in those two respective categories. There is also the better traction due to AWD vs RWD.

The BMW wins the braking and handling where as the Audi wins the acceleration, track performance, skid-pad and has better traction.

Something tells me all the reviews stating that the RS4 is the best driving Audi ever are being read by Audi executives and they are using these similar characteristics for the M3.

If you say driving feel makes a sports-car, I could counter and say overall performance makes the better car. In that situation the Audi RS4 wins.

Yes, the BMW will appeal more to the pure enthusiast but if you get the M3 with the SMG I can almost certainly bet you that the RS4 will win due to it offering the better overall performance package, albeit at a much higher price.

Logical I almost forgot, those who can afford the $66K Audi RS4 most certainly can't afford the $55K BMW M3 right?

The current RS-cars are not heavy and undesirable. Read any review on the Audi RS4 and it is the best driving, most desireable Audi ever from an enthusiast's standpoint.

Logical keep reading ALL the reviews that say how much everyone is looking forward to BMW rising to the challenge brought upon by Audi.

We still don't know if BMW will meet or defeat the challenge......

The current RS-cars are not heavy and undesirable. Read any review on the Audi RS4 and it is the best driving, most desireable Audi ever from an enthusiast's standpoint.

Logical keep reading ALL the reviews that say how much everyone is looking forward to BMW rising to the challenge brought upon by Audi.

We still don't know if BMW will meet or defeat the challenge......

logical - must be bored with BMW again and is more worried about what Audi is up to.

Boo Audi is coming for you

These are all good cars, but I think I would pick the Audi first, Mercedes second, and BMW last.

Even though I picked the BMW last, I do like the SMG box. It would be out of place in a more luxury minded auto, but seems fine in an M.

Although the IS500 doesn't compete with these, it will nonetheless destroy them in performance and handling. Lexus made sure to test this car properly on the Nurburg ring. Hopefully I will one day have the money to buy it!
----------------------------------------------

You are right: the IS500 doesn't compete here, so shut up with your trolling.

To complement what BMW530i is saying, all true "sport Car'' is now tested at the Nurburg ring. The Germans have been doing for a very long time.
The problem of the IS500..it won't have a 6 speed manual.
Right there it will alienate a lot of people.

Audi already has the third highest sales behind BMW and MB worldwide. The next closest company is off by god know's how much.

Mercedes-Benz and their god awful campaign relating them to Chrysler.


hahahahaha.... what a joke.

My rebadged Volkswagen which costs more than your BMW or Mercedes-Benz.

I don't care who sells what.

I only care about my car costing more than your BMW or Mercedes-Benz.

The Audi RS4 is more than the M3 or lowly C55 and the previous RS6 is more than the M5 and RS6.

So logical how about you get your cheap M3 out of here and your POS, cheap E39 M5 out the window. When you can afford to spend an extra $3K on the previous generation RS6 and an exra $11K on the RS4 come talk to me chump....

Until then your the poor POS with your E39 BMW M5.

When you have the cash come play with the boys with the real MONEY when it comes to high-performance stakes.....

logical your such a minority on this board it's best you get out of here. Realize no one here shares your opinion and its you against all the Audi supporters so you will obviously get shot down everytime you make statements.

Don't talk to me about sales. Talk to me about the price of high-performance vehicles.

For those whi didn't read the article:

E63 is best all-roundner - offering best balance between comfortable & sporty driving. Best engine sound. The most powerful engine, with mos proper transmission. Chasis & steering not as precise as M5, nor stabile like S6.

S6 has very good chasis offering ultra-strong grip & traction (especially in long & fast curves) due quattro, but is not fun to drive in short curves due to quattro & weight. Gearbox is good, but brakes are weak and suspension uncomfortable.

M5 has the sportiest engine, very fine tuned chasis offering best driving dynamic, the most precise steering. Best car for curves. 3rd place due SMG & iDrive (SMG too jerky & unfriendly for daily ride, 7-speed manual mode an over-kill, too many complicated settings: POWER, EDC, DSC & SMG; unintuitive iDrive).

-------------------------------------------------------

Now the german magazines are split into 2 brigades:
1. Auto Motor und Sport, AutoBuild, AutoZeitung
2. SportAuto

The first usually pic the winner on by picking the best all rounder.
While SportAuto pic by driving dynamics and feeling, lap times and such.

Now check this:

s6/m5/e63
0–100 km/h 5,4 s 4,7 s 4,5 s
0–130 km/h 8,2 s 6,9 s 6,9 s
0–160 km/h 11,6 s 9,4 s 9,7 s
0–200 km/h 18,0 s 13,5 s 15,0 s

In a straight line, up until 130 km, the AMG and M are equall and leave the S6 behind, by 200 Km/H (~125 MPH) the M5 leaves the AMG (way) behing. In fact the 63 AMG seems slower that the 55 AMG.

Since in the corners the M5 rules, that means on a track (not just the straights)the M5 can't be matched.

If this was a SportAuto comparo, the M5 would have slaughtered the competition.

5 years before anyone else?
it appeared on 7 in 2002, the a8 had mmi in 2003.
that's one year.

DarkOneForce

Those are conservative European times. The M5 has been clocked as fast as 4.2 seconds 0-60. The S6 will do it in about 4.8-4.9 seconds.

Actually Audi showed a concept of the MMI before BMW brought out their I Drive.

The nice thing about the S6 is that the test that was done, if it had been wet, the S6 would have OWNED both the M5 and the E63 because they have way too much power to keep it down in the wet.

efoxs4, how did BMW got spanked ?!

By being the best when it comes to performance, driving dynamics and feeling ?!

Do belive BMW will give this up so it can win at the
luxury/comfort areas, when these are high performance sport sedans ?!

No way.

And BTW BMW are preparing the M5 CS to take on cars such as the upcoming RS6.