GENEVA MOTOR SHOW: Has Audi Peaked?

I think Audi peaked with the 2012 A5. I've gone from lusting fan to meh since then.

R8 was Audi's last interesting car

I disagree. RS7 takes the cake.

I agree, somewhat, with w222 and theSteve.

With the A5, Audi grabbed my attention for the first (and only) time since the first A4 did way back when. Then came the R8 and I almost was ready to be an Audi fan for life. But the rest of the lineup just leaves me pretty cold and uninterested. Yes, the S7 and RS7 are beasts, but I'd much prefer to have an E550/550i/CLS550/E63/M5/CLS63.

Audi is no longer significant in the automotive world. It already lost the touch years ago.

And so is BMW. I guess Mercedes is trying so hard to get more buyers by offering cheaper cars, but honestly, how does that exactly help Mercedes' image in general?

It's very unfortunate, and I just have to be honest. Frankly, the only winners seem to be Cadillac and Lexus. The real smart buyers would consider either of them. Lexus is reliable, and the new RC looks amazing. Cadillac is producing amazing cars like CTS, and I bet no other car in the segment can touch CTS to be honest.

I don't think so much that they've peaked, they still have some more interesting models to come out, which will allow them to continue growing. But, and I know it's the same old criticism, their core saloon models have gone somewhat stale. They are handsome enough, but there just is not enough differentiation between generations and between models, it's difficult to tell which models were new and which were just facelifts.

If the new TT is any indication of their future styling, then I think Audi's respectable styling reputation might me about to go out of the window.

When BMW's started getting uglier (or at least more questionable), people kept buying, I'm sure Audi's now done enough that they can fall back on similar badge/brand loyalty.

Funny, BobM is deboosted and yet has the correct perspective. Every company and industry goes through cycles. and they result from complex factors influenced by internal decisions and external events. To say a company like Audi has"peaked" implies that one knows where in the cycle they are at any given time. If you are saying that right now their products are less interesting, that's alot different then stating they "have peaked" (implying they will never regain whatever you think was lost.

1. The 7 is the nicer looking Audi
2. I don't think they have peaked nor I'm hoping they ever do. Merc needs BMW just like BMW needs Audi and so on. Nobody can rest in their laurels.

carsync has it right - when the next A4 comes out I'm sure it will be a fantastic car just like the current generation is/was when it first appeared. The Q7 may be outdated but it sells amazing well - they can't make them fast enough at least for the US market. Same for the Q5 and I have no doubt the Q3 will be a sales success too. While looks are very important and the A4 & A6 may be looking dated, they are still much better than what most brands put out in that respective class when you look at the whole package, exterior/interior, fit/finish, mileage, price, safety, driving experience.

What a dumb question by Agent00R created simply to start a war. I'll refute this question very clearly.

1) Audi has stated its upcoming models will be significantly more aggressive and differentiated than the current lineup. Audi stated the new 2015 TT, which was just unveiled in Geneva, had to be scaled back in terms of aggression. Audi was originally going to make it more aggressive looking but decided it could hold off because the TT is not a huge seller like the A4 and Q7. Why do people assume that Audi would design its volume models in direct contrast to its public comments about how its new models will be more aggressive and differentiated? The A4 and Q7 are taking longer because Audi wants to make sure it has an excellent product.

2) The A3 Sedan is a better all-around car than the Mercedes-Benz CLA. The reviews have and will continue to prove this and the sales will too. The A3 comes standard with leather, a sunroof and xenon headlights for the same base price as the CLA. Want to get the just-mentioned options in your CLA? Be prepared to spend another $6K and you can get a cramped rear seat in the process.

Don't think the Audi brand is lacking momentum either because 39 consecutive months of sales growth in the U.S. doesn't happen overnight.

Having a head start does not automatically mean the Mercedes-Benz CLA will continue to sell as well as it has been considering it currently has no competition.

3)Globally Audi is the market leader in China and Europe. The world is not just the U.S. and executives at BMW, Mercedes-Benz and Audi all take a global as well as regional approach to their businesses. Why would a brand that is the current market leader by a large margin in China, which is expected to become the world's largest premium car market by 2016 surpassing the U.S. be peaking?

4) Where is the lack of innovation? Has anyone seen the interior of the new Audi TT? Is that not innovative? Realize this interior could very well find its way into the upcoming A4 and Q7 models. How about 4G LTE connectivity in the A3 sedan? Let's not forget the mainstream application of LED headlights that every brand on earth seems to have copied. Who started that trend on a large scale basis?

5) Audi is first and foremost a business. The goal is to grow sales revenue) and profitability. Audi is currently more profitable than BMW and Mercedes-Benz and has been consistently for a while due in no small part due to the economies of scale it achieves by being a part of Volkswagen Auto Group and sharing parts, platforms, etc with the other Group brands such as Bentley, Porsche and Volkswagen. That extra profit has been what has allowed Audi to spend $30 billion on new model expansion, improvements in manufacturing facilities and R&D through 2020.

To ask if Audi is peaking shows a clear lack of knowledge regarding the company, its products and financial situation.

Wow, I don't even know where to start?

Audi is the market leader in the whole of Europe? Do you have stats for that?

Funny how you use China as an example of success, a nation that is most known for their love and consumption of knock-off products... oh no...

And the only reason they have have a bigger market share is because VW decided to enter a market most Western countries decided was unsuitable because it's a communist country. Wow, you manage to sell more cars to communists, great achievement.

You keep using phrases like "expected" and "Audi states" these are not facts, they are in your imagination and your wet dreams. Facts happen on figures and you're a while off on that with the A4, oops, I mean A3 sedan.

Audi is a business and you know what? They know someone like you will eventually scrounge enough money together to buy a new or used Audi.

The people they really care about are the ones driving Mercs or BMW's. They are the ones to win over. Not blatantly loyal die-hard fans. That's a business. So is selling re-badged Jettas. Read a little.

Yes, I have facts for Audi being the market leader in Europe:

"In Europe and China, the four rings again led the premium segment in 2013 as the top-selling brand. Audi concluded the year with a 18.4 percent growth to around 130,700 global deliveries in December, increasing sales in all regions of the world compared to the same month of 2012."

https://www.audi-mediaservices.com/publish/ms/content/en/public/pressemitteilungen/2014/01/09/audi__more_than_1.html

Way to be closed-minded and attack the Chinese because of their government structure. Maybe BMW should stop being so concerned with democracy vs. communist and realize business opportunities that are present in these communist nations.

Audi did "state" that it's new design philosophy will be more aggressive and differentiated. It is a fact, not my opinion.

http://www.audiusanews.com/newsrelease.do;jsessionid=67648E63500027C061081569ADF5A437?&id=3227&allImage=1&teaser=audi-design-close-up-close-look-new-design&mid=

Audi did "state" that it wsa going to make this new TT more aggressive but needed to scale it back:

"his next TT successfully recalls the original, and it does so in a manner more directly than originally envisioned by Audi's design department. We hear that Volkswagen Group chairman Ferdinand Piëch—the Group’s final arbiter of style—insisted on keeping the rear end visually close to those of the previous two generations, but the overall look of the TT has nevertheless been starched."

Audi will get the BMW and Benz customers with its strength of product. Re-badged Jettas? It's more like cost savings achieved through economies of scale. That's the magic recipe for the higher profit in relation to BMW and Mercedes-Benz. Independence can help make a company more nimble but it also increases costs significantly.

Shame

Wow, your articles are all from Audi, do you have them all favourited?

And you still use "state" as if you believe every word a Multi National Corporation (MNC) says. It's not just sad, it's naive.

And if you're buying a car over another car because one car company is more profitable than another, you're doing it wrong.

You should buy the car for a whole load of factors other than that. But then, I'm not sure you're of driving age? Or ready to buy a car.

I can see the whole 'China' thing upset you. I apologise.

So, what part of China is your family originally from?

Audi has plenty of "gas in their tanks"; all of the German brands do. And still loving my Audi 6er and the high quality craftsmanship interior and performance ride.

@gkearns56 a "6er" is a BMW 6 series, see my reply to your previous post. Or google it.

I prefer to use company information as it is the most accurate source, obviously. I can only believe what I read. I'm not buying a brand because it is more profitable. I'm buying Audi because I believe in its product and its philosophy as a company. Profitability is however of greatest importance to the shareholders of a company.

I think its clear to see I'm easily of driving age. No worries on the China thing and I'm not from China.

How about the U.S. consumers realize they don't just live in a vacuum and that the world is a big place with tons of business opportunities.

Just information from one company hey? Happens to be a very popular brand in China, hey? You happen to mention China a lot in relation to Audi hey? It's not clear. You're attitude is either very immature or very BPD (Boderline Personality Disorder) or both.

I think their styling has peaked. The humonguous grill thing has to either go or at least have another shape. The idea that you don't want to make your mass produced sports car too aggressive becasue it's not a big seller? How about the idea that if you made a bit more agressive there might be better sales. Audi like BMW has too many models that overlap each other and they own to many other car makers that overlap Audi. For example Audi does not need a sports car between the TT and the R8. Rather what they should have done is takien the 2010 Quattro concept and adapted it to become the next TT.It's agreat design. Instead they simply do what looks like mid model update of the current TT.Yes I know it;s on a new platform but you would never know it.I also think it's A4 and A6 and A8 need a rethink now.It's interiors do as well. Perhaps the TT interior might become the new blueprint. I don't have much issue with the SUV's yet.There needs to be little bit more differentation in styling between models. Audi must agree as the've pushed back 2 model revamps.But as far as Audi themselves peeking. Absolutely not.Quattro drive has really been their philosophy for 34 yrs and they should stick with it.

Firewombat, please stop the personal attacks claiming disorders. That is very childish and is grounds for getting banned.

You attacked me personally first so don't get on your high horse now. Childish, wow. Pot. Kettle. Black.

Besides, it's not an attack, just giving you something to think about in terms of how people view you and your posts.

Audi is very slow like Lexus and right now BMW. Mercedes seems to be the most hungry right now. They are spending alot of money doing it though. It's a chess game between the BIG 3. Toyota has more money then all of them but they are conservative.

Germanut, my appreciation for Audi diminishes every time I read one of your posts, and I'm sure that's the case for the majority in this site. Trust me, Audi is very OK and will continue so without your fanatic tirade against Merc and particularly BMW.

Firewombat, care to point out exactly where I attacked you personally first or are you just making things up out of thin air again without support for your claim? I was forced to defend Audi against Agent00R's most ridiculous question that he knew would start a fan war and is probably the only reason why he posted it in the first place.

You called me a 'moron' when I questioned your logic.

OOR did not make a ridiculous statement, Audi only sold 4 more cars since last year the same time in the US. Hence, have they peaked? Sensible question.

Why don't you attack some of the other people who have posted criticisms about you and your fantasies on this thread or others?

Are you running out of excuses?

I'm sure OOR, being the auto industry follower that he is, knew for sure his question would start a war. He even admitted that Audi is the "it" brand or "talk of the town" with the example of his sister looking to buy an Audi.

He then asks if Audi has peaked all because it had one weak month (yet it still eked out a 39th consecutive monthly gain, no matter how small) while admitting the A3 sedan, which is obviously going to be a brand new volume model, is around the corner.

That to me is pretty much like OOR admitting he knows the answer to the question but asks it anyway simply for the reaction he knows it will receive.

The Borderline Personality Disorder was taking it a bit too far. I have no problems with the other criticisms, but mentioning a specific disorder is a bit much.

Let's move on from this and look forward to the global figures due out hopefully end of this week, which should provide some interesting details into the geographic breakdowns of the respective brands.

@Germannut

My story had nothing to do with one poor month of sales. That's a really stupid assumption to make and jump up and down over.

It has to do with products that are, frankly, not that inspired in the pipeline.

I disagree. And let's not forget you're very good at starting flame wars with your own articles and headlines, so you can't point fingers.

And there is nothing wrong with having a mental illness, many people who suffer from mental illness feel ashamed because of the stigma we place on it in negative terms.

So if you do have Borderline Personality Disorder, or another type of disorder, then I'm here to say that there is nothing to feel ashamed about. Although, it would explain a lot.

The day you move on, sport. Is the day we all do. So, you first.

Moving on? I'm not going anywhere. I will continue my passion for Audi and contributing to this site. I was posting here long before you showed up.

You, though, need to stop with claiming of the disorders because first, I don't have one and second that is a personal attack that will get you banned.

I'd rather have you contribute to this site and challenge Audi etc. than not have the ability to post all because you crossed the line and attacked users personally.

Like the tick I have? Maybe I should report you?

Don't forget, you started the specific disorder claims. How's the X4 publicity going? Are you basking in its "beautiful" glory and "uniqueness"?

You're still guilty. I don't really care about the X4, I like a lot of cars, what part of China are you from?

You don't "really care" about the X4? Well, is that so? An awful lot of comments regarding BMW for a guy who simply doesn't "really care." Getting confused about the point of the X4, are we? Don't worry join the club.

No, just picked up a thread about your hypocrisy on the X4, as did others, to which you still have not replied. Only mine.

And it was too easy because you're proved wrong so easily. Seems you're a bit obsessed. You're not really providing arguments, just predictions out of thin air, which do not happen, which is why all of your TT threads looks so sad. Are you sure it's not time to re-group?

You obviously didn't see my rebuttal argument in response to the people who claim Audi should have taken the aggressive and differentiated design approach and applied it to the new TT.

I'm not going to deal any longer with someone who can't use evidence to support his claims.

I've seen a lot of 'rebuttals' but not one that can be called fact and you lost all of the arguments on all of those threads. Are you crying now?