Why the Big 3 German Companies if looked at together, are a major force

The Big German 3 are Audi, BMW and Mercedes.

Audi is known for their hallmark interiors. Audi interiors in every class ranging from the A3, A4, A6, A8, TT and Q7 set the standard. Aud's expertise in this specific category is so great that even Lamborghini (owned by Audi) has been praised with wonderful interiors for the Gallardo and Murcielago. Lamborghini features identical Audi HVAC controls and switchgear.

The Audi A8 is truly blessed with a simpy amazing interior. The A8 interior is ergonomically best in class and the MMI is the most intuitive out of Mercedes' COMAND and BMW's iDrive. Not to mention the quality of the interior and variety of textures creates a harmonious interior which can't be found in any other car this side of a Bentley.

Audi is the leader when it comes to interiors. In fact this statement is so true that I had asked for members of this forum to provide an article, review or test regarding a Model Year 2000 or later Audi which had an ergonomically poor, cheap feeling and un-intuitive interior. That article was never presented and actually does not exist. Audi won 3 awards from Ward's Auto regarding their interiors this year alone.

With cars like the RS4 and forthcoming R8, the previous belief that Audis looked great but never drove as good as they looked will be put down. The RS4 is already the best-driving Audi according to numerous magazines. The R8 if having some of the same characteristics will be an incredible sports car.

BMW has been the leader in driving dynamics. BMWs handle the best out of the luxury-sport sedans. They provide a good amount of straight-line acceleration (though not as much as some of the respective AMG models) and also offer wonderful handling and track capabilities (which most Mercedes models can't match). BMWs may have styling that isn't appealing to some, but the BMW trademark of amazing handling is always present.

Mercedes in particular with their AMG division offers cars with massive engines, huge horsepower and torque resulting in lightning quick straight-line acceleration numbers. Although quality has taken a hit as of late, Mercedes never fails to impress with their straight-line grunt.


If you put these 3 characteristics together the Germans are a true force. They have dynamic exterior designs (with BMW), clean and skin-tight exteriors with Audi and pleasant designs with Mercedes.

GermanNut - 8/29/2006 3:29:20 PM

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I would like to add to my post, that if you have a variety of exterior styling choices from curvy and dynamic offered by BMW, pleasant and kind of curvy from Mercedes and clean-cut tight from Audi you will undoubtedly appeal to a certain group who if not happy with the very curvy BMWs, will be happ with the semi-curvy Mercedes or cean-cut Audis.

With the best interiors in the premium-luxury auto world, the best driving dynamics and brutal straight-line acceleration the Germans (Audi, BMW and Mercedes-Benz) have respective strongholds on three categories that make cars great and with a variety of exterior styling choices as previously noted, the designs will definetely appeal to a certain group and they most certainly have.

Heck, even some people sample cars from more than one brand such as myself. I have driven all three brands and they each have their strongpoints.

The notion that Audi is a rebadged Volkswagen will surely go out the window with their new sky-high prices with the RS4 (66K for a compact sport-luxury sedan!), over $115K for the R8 sportscar, nearly $120,000 for the A8L W12 and $95K+ for the S8 sport-sedan.

PlanoA4 - 8/29/2006 3:29:36 PM

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The German “Premium Makers” have historically shared technology, and even factories in the quest to produce the finest and most advanced vehicles in the world. This continued cooperation it just another factor that make them above the bar. They recognize the need to share resources to further the technology. Profitability will come to those that lay a solid foundation in the technology and invest wisely.

GermanNut - 8/29/2006 3:32:12 PM

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Logical, since when were interiors not counted?

Yes, logical I will give more weight to driving dynamics than interiors. However, would you like to be sitting in a Corvette Z06 with Ferrari F430 beating performance while being surrounded in cheap plastic and low-cost materials?

Logical, Lamborghini is where it is today because of one company and you know exactly which company I'm talking about. Check the switchgear as a little hint.

For a German brand to elevate one of the true great sports-car companies to the level of where it is now is a testament to the innovation and leadership from Ingolstadt.

PlanoA4 - 8/29/2006 3:33:15 PM

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It is all about alliances and technology, the Germans have understood that from the beginning. This simple concept is why they lead the world in advancements of automotive technology. Do not underestimate thme.

GermanNut - 8/29/2006 3:36:27 PM

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Also Porsche is certainly great, but I did not mention them in this article due to the fact that Porsche has always played down the luxury element to some extent when compared to Audi, BMW and MB. At the same time Porsche has put more emphasis on sport when compared to Audi, BMW and MB.

To see the Germans teaming with the Italian great to propel both brands shows the engineering greatness of both countries.

Lamborghini has benefitted from Audi with their great interiors that are now fitted with great quality. Audi has benefitted from Lamborghini by being able to build the R8 and borrow the Lamborghini V10 and detune it for the S8 and S6 and the forthcoming RS6.

PlanoA4 - 8/29/2006 3:36:36 PM

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illogical- Get back on your meds dude. Audi, BMW, and MB are the German big three. All globally known as such.

Audi has advance more than ergonomics, They are also known for diesel technology, AWD, and turbocharged technology to name a few.

BMW530i - 8/29/2006 3:36:38 PM

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The high-performance divisions of these car companies don't bring in much of the profit. The lower end models and some V6 models are their bread and butter.

GermanNut - 8/29/2006 3:46:16 PM

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Plano you are forgetting Audi's DSG which is the best gearbox on the market and even better than BMW's SMG which isn't a bad gearbox itself.

maxxm - 8/29/2006 3:51:14 PM

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"The notion that Audi is a rebadged Volkswagen will surely go out the window with their new sky-high prices with the RS4 (66K for a compact sport-luxury sedan!), over $115K for the R8 sportscar, nearly $120,000 for the A8L W12 and $95K+ for the S8 sport-sedan."

Really? What about the $100,000 VW Phaeton? It's still a Volkswagen.

johannas - 8/29/2006 4:00:34 PM

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^^The phaeton starts at $66,700. Just for reference.

GermanNut - 8/29/2006 4:04:32 PM

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Maxxm if you were a true auto-enthusiast you would know the Volkswagen Phaeton is no longer being produced due to the fact that it was such a failure.

Audi is certainly not going to be getting rid of any cars, they will only be adding even more expensive models and their prices are only rising higher and higher closer to and in some cases beyond the respective offering of BMW and Mercedes-Benz.

Oh yeah Maxxm one more thing. Audi pretty soon won't be having just one $100K+ model, they will be having 2 with the A8L W12 and R8 and the S8 will be coming very close to the $100K mark. These cars are going to be made for a long long time to come.....

Hence proving that Audi is not a rebadged Volkswagen but a true premium-luxury car company with the tools and firepower to do battle with BMW and Mercedes-Benz.

GermanNut - 8/29/2006 4:12:36 PM

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There is no such thing as a $100K Volkswagen Phaeton Maxxm. The 420 horsepower W12 Phaeton starts at $96,600.

The Audi A8L W12 starts at $118,190. The V10 powered R8 which has been approved for production by Audi AG will start over $115K or maybe even over $120K.

The Audi S8 will be right around the $95-100K mark.

Besides the Phaeton what other car does Volkswagen have that starts above even $60K?

The answer is there is no other mode that starts over $50K. The V8 Toureg starts at $47, 750.

Audi has the RS4 at $66K. The A6 4.2 at $50+K. The A8L starting at $68K. The A8L W12 starting at $118,190. The R8 V10 starting at $115K +. The previous generation RS6 at $87K

maxxm - 8/29/2006 4:24:26 PM

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$96,600 is awfully close to $100,000, isn't it? And the Phaeton is still manufactured for non-US markets. My point was not to put down Audi (we have an A6 Avant) or to promote VW but, rather, just to make the conversation more accurate. I think we all profit from that.

GermanNut - 8/29/2006 4:33:24 PM

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well if a car is a big enough flop to the point where after 3 years of production it is no longer sold in the United States, it shows how accurately Volkswagen priced it.

iown1 - 8/29/2006 4:44:05 PM

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Can you imagine the luxury sedan these three could come up with if they worked together on a concept vehicle. Gives me chills just thinking about it.

GermanNut - 8/29/2006 4:52:47 PM

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Logical we do care how much the Audi costs because it proves that Audi's are bought by the same consumers that can afford to buy a BMW or a Mercedes.

How would you like it if someone with a BMW bought an Audi???

I'm sure that would upset you but the fact of the matter is that those can afford the Audi can fford the cheaply priced BMW high-performance model as well.

Logical, as if your a PHD in mathematics here posting stuff like the Audi is a cheap POS when the Audi RS4 costs $66K or $12-15K more than a $50-55K BMW M3 and you say the Audi owners can't afford the BMW.

Talk to me when you can do your addition and subtraction properly.

GermanNut - 8/29/2006 5:00:09 PM

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Who cares how many cars BMW sells logical, if their quality along with fit and finish is not as good as Audi's.

BMWs for the most part are bought by yuppies that have no clue about cars. They couldn't tell you how much horsepower or even how many cylinders their cars have for god's sake.

That is clearly not the customer base you want behind the wheel of the "ultimate driving machine."

Bmws only sell the way they do because they have brand recognition but will never have the interior quality or fit and finish of an Audi. Totally sucks for BMW fans to know they are behind the wheel of a car that is bought by clueless people just buying the car to feel as if they were wealthy and that the quality of their car is inferior to Audi.

GermanNut - 8/29/2006 5:05:08 PM

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Logical find me my article regarding the interiors of Audi's please..... I've been waiting for months now.

GermanNut - 8/29/2006 5:13:48 PM

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Yes, I did chump. B.A. in business management. I drive an A4 and my family has bmws. To be exact they are: a 330i w/ M performance package, an X5 4.8is and a 750Li. I will soon be getting a 335i to make it 4. We have also had a 328Ci and an X5 4.4i

well you will see on your little Production Possibilities Frontier demand nonsense that the Audi is priced higher.

Once again I don't care if BMW sold 10 million cars per year. The fact that someone can afford to buy a $66K also means that he/she can afford to buy a $55K car.

If you don't find me my article about Audi interiors I will rub it into your face every damn time when you disregard Audi's accomplishments.

I do know a thing or two about my cars. I have also driven (didn't own) an SL500, S500 and previous generation ML from Mercedes.

Lexus - 8/29/2006 5:14:38 PM

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What you are you talking about, it like saying if the Acura, Nissan and Lexus working together to build the ultimate supercar. Of course they will be force to reckon with, as it is happening right now. Acura soon to release the NSX with 500+ hp, Skyline with 500+ of their own and the Lexus IS500 with over 420+ and their flagship supercar the Lexus LF-A with 550+ hp.

Lexus

GermanNut - 8/29/2006 5:14:45 PM

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You can see I have a rich history with all three of these automakers. Pretty soon I will be driving a BMW but my support for Audi will only grow. Call me a cross-pollinating auto enthusiast if you will.

iown1 - 8/29/2006 5:25:03 PM

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logical, logical, logical

You are too funny! I do have a college degree. (Not that that means anything, I've met some complete morons with college degrees. Several actually worked for me.) I also have an $80,000.00 car, an AUDI A8L. I leased it in 2004 after test driving both the 7 and S Class. It's an incredible machine. So was the 7. I chose the A8 because of it's styling and AWD. I live Upstate most of the time. It would have been very easy for me to pick up the phone and order my new Merc or BMW as everyone else does, but I chose to check out the competition. I'm glad I did. I'm not saying the AUDI is better than the 7, but then again the 7 was certainly no better than the AUDI, just two different cars. Kinda like two different suits.

GermanNut - 8/29/2006 5:45:13 PM

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oh yeah call me a moron illogical (your new nickname), when we all know the Corvette Z06 is the best performance car bargin the world has ever seen. Comparing it to a Ferrari?? and why the hell not.....it sure is faster.

The RS4 is not branded a limited release car because people have a preference for BMW's M3. The RS4 is branded a limited release car because Audi will not dillute their high-performance division the sad way Mercedes has. An R63 has got to be the biggest joke I have ever seen. The M3 is a mass-produced high-performance car and BMW is flirting on the edge of diluting their M brand.

Wow, looks like I got something through your head there.....finally. It looks like you understand that people who can afford a 66K car (more like a $70K) car can obviously afford a roughly $60K car.

Your telling me that every single person will choose the M3 over the RS4 when its launched?? Think again there is already a 1 year waiting list for the RS4

Again we don't know if BMW will rise to the challaenge posed by Audi and the RS4.....yet that is.

Chumparoo could you think of a more crazier nickname What is with the "aroo" at the end????

GermanNut - 8/29/2006 5:48:26 PM

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The only reason why I'm getting a BMW is to have the best driving dynamics and also the best acceleration in class. If it were for any other charactersitic BMW would be on the bottom of my list.

I just happen to enjoy driving balanced, excellent handling and dynamic cars..

GermanNut - 8/29/2006 8:14:14 PM

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no you mean Audi luxury because they have the best luxury. As a matter of fact, BMWexpert. I'm going to make you my bitch, and put you on a mission for me. Your goal is to find me an article, review or test regarding a Model year 2000 or later Audi (any Audi) that has an ergonomically bad, cheap feeling, plasticky interior.


Start searching......

chewy - 8/29/2006 8:34:05 PM

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VAG sold 2.86 million cars in the last six months.

kart1 - 8/29/2006 9:01:38 PM

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I just have one thing to say, now if anyone said this before sorry because I didn't want to read the same comments over and over again.

I just can't believe that anyone would actually write something like this. You can't put three different companies together and look at them as one. Doesn't BMW pride itself as being independent? Does Mercedes really want to aligned with their biggest rival? Does Audi want to abandon their Quattro heritage because another company lives on RWD? See the biggest problem here is that these companies are supposed to be different and the so-called "heritage" is there because of that. Also since everyone here seems to make fun of Lexus all the time wouldn't it be really sad that the big German 3 have to get together and take out a company which only has a stronghold in the US. I mean the company that copies everyone, doesn't have anything original, and really sucks because they don't have economical diesel engines in their luxury cars.

I won't hold my breath for a BMW E320 Quattro.

lexusis350 - 8/29/2006 10:13:00 PM

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What's sad is that these three "major forces" are still no match for Lexus.

chewy - 8/29/2006 10:17:06 PM

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lexusis350

How is that? All three of them sell more cars than Lexus. According to Lexus fans, # of sales determines how good a car is. In that fron Lexus fails miserable compared to the "Big 3 Premium German Brands"

YZFracer23 - 8/29/2006 11:31:38 PM

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I agree with Kart1, all of the big 3 (AUDI, BMW, MERCEDES) are unique and have their own heritage and following. I am a huge Audi fan, but I can't hate lexus. They are up and coming and in 10-20 years, they will have some heritage. All with time. Toyota however, shouldn't even be brought into this, as VW shouldn't, they are regular consumer cars for the everyday person. VW and Toyota are the ones doing the car sales counting. Audi, BMW, Mercedes, and Lexus are all for the extra luxury and something "special".

Logical- You claim no one here is intelligent, but you make some of the most oxymoron and un-intelligent statements I have ever heard. I think it is you who has an issue. I also think that half the stuff you are saying you would not dare say in person. We should get a huge autospies meet together so we can all stare logical down and ask him to repeat what he types towards everyone. Go back to kindergarten!

I do not understand however why MB and BMW are so strict on keeping their performance models RWD anyway. AWD is the way to go, it is better in getting power to the ground and keeping grip in cornering (which results in faster speeds on the street or track). No real race car driver does a RWD powerslide. So I don't see the point in it. That is why I choose Audi.

YZFracer23 - 8/30/2006 12:06:34 AM

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100% agree with efoxS4. Especially that, (sorry true BMW enthusiasts) about 50% if the M3's that I come across are old men or women who buy it just becuase it's a hot BMW. None of them drive it like it should be driven.
Also, I can't wait for the B8 A4 range. The S4 and RS4 are going to be handling and performaing monsters.

Larry - 8/30/2006 1:16:34 AM

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Vag sold 2.83 million so what? Audi is just one of several brands sold by VW, like Skoda, Seat, Bentley, Lamorghi, Buguatti, and VW. Just compare Audi's net profit is a small fraction of BMW's profit, BMW and Mercedes both crush audi's sales especially audi A8, BMW sales more than 50,000 7 series vs. 21,500 A8's in 2005.. will you people need to start selling Audi products instead posting these lies on autospies. Also the Audi Q7, it is OK but it does not look better than the Volvo XC90, Cadillac eslcade, Range Rover, VW SUV, Mercedes ML or GL, Lexus Suv's, etc. I hope Audi can reach it's sales goals in the U.S. it looks like a whale it's different and maybe a great SUV but the Cadillac SUV and Mercedes GL look better, NEW X5 looks great and SUV sales are down in the US.

chewy - 8/30/2006 1:22:36 AM

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Larry

I am not sure what you are talking about. Audi will soon sell a MILLION luxury cars. I think they are doing fine. The VAG number was for 1/2 year. That means that VAG sells about 6 million cars each year. VW is one of the biggest automakers in the world.

chewy - 8/30/2006 2:06:26 AM

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BMWexpert

Audi only sent about 1,000 RS4. They have sold them. They are a limited release vehicles. That is why you haven't seen any. I have seen one and it looks awesome.

MPowerDK - 8/30/2006 2:08:30 AM

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I can say about interiors, that the BMW e39, e46 etc. were among the best. I agree that the newer cars from BMW has not the same nice touch, but that goes for Audi A6 too, they are all one step down.
One more thing, a 50.000 $ car is expensive, but in Denmar where i live for 50.000$ you can get a BMW 116i or an Audi A3 1,6. If you like a 330i or A4 3,0 it will cost around 110.000$ an 750Li 285.000 $ and yes it is USD.

1970toyotamarc - 8/30/2006 2:13:27 AM

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When will this madness end???!!!

This site is Autospies, not BMWSpies, AudiSpies, GermanSpies or IHateLexusSpies.

Could we stick to talking about the merits of new cars, hopefully some SPIES cars, instaed of rehashing the Germany v Lexus debate every single day???!!!

Mark - 8/30/2006 8:35:33 AM

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logical...what is your deal with Audi? Really. It's to the point that you don't need to post anything about Audi since we know where you stand on them.

But I really want to know why you pass yourself off as such a knowledgeable person and you have such a kindergarten attitude against one company.

Most people on this site can at least support their own 'camp' (except for GermanNut) and still give other car makers a nod here and here. And how can you even put Porsche in the same level comparison as BMW and MB?

PlanoA4 - 8/30/2006 8:52:17 AM

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1970toyotamarc - I agree we need more spy cars and less of this mine is better than yours. In most cases we are splitting hairs and not really making this a place for new people to come and hang out. Actually it probably turns off quite a few people due to the hostility a few numb nuts have out there.

Agent63 - 8/30/2006 1:10:28 PM

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IMO Mercedes, Audi, BMW in terms of "Luxury". However it depends on where you coming from. If you like the contemporary luxury look *Audi*. If you want a more traditional luxury with lots of wood you'll go with the Merc. As for BMW, I don't know. I am not too fond of their interiors. Never was and until they change their philosophy, probably never will.

dualexhaust - 8/30/2006 1:16:24 PM

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which brand is noticed for looks