Are Quantified Reviews Utter Bull#@!* M235i BETTER Than 911, Corvette? M4 BEATS 911?

In this crazy business described as automotive journalism, there's always something interesting going on. There are good reasons for this:

1) A lot of these hacks are "in the bag" with manufacturers so they continue to get invited to events;
2) Most publications are struggling to make money, so they are doing whatever they can to sell books;
3) Many of these "journalists" are doing what they can to elevate their career trajectory — remember the guy that boned Tesla from The New York Times;
4) And, there's a tremendous amount of phoniness between the writers and the pr flacks at the automakers.

Our approach is different. We do our best to work hard, be kind and tell the story as we see it. And if you've read our product reviews, you'd know we're not like the other guys.

One of the biggest reasons for this is we don't have a scoring system or point system where cars earn rewards based on their attributes. There's many reasons why we don't do that. One of which is that it's not always fair to compare cars and score them based on attributes many buyers may NOT even consider or care about. You have to remember, car buying is still an emotional purchase for many. The more critical reason why we don't conduct business that way is because consumers are cross shopping a lot of vehicles that don't actually make sense, so, a point system isn't fair.

So, when I see a car like the BMW M235i rack up 98 points at Consumer Reports and headlines read it's better than the Corvette and 911, I just laugh. Listen, the M235i is probably a great car for most people but if anyone really spends time behind the wheel it's not all that and a bag of chips. It's certainly not as magical as the Porsche 911 or all-new Chevrolet Corvette.

Now the all-new 2015 BMW M4, that's probably one of the best BMWs in recent memory aside from the 1M. But to put it up against the likes of the base 911 — which is really in another class of car — that's not equipped with a dual-clutch 'box and is penalized for no rear set legroom is just obtuse.

There's no question the M4 has outstanding performance, but there's something missing after you drive it. I wasn't hungry for more after a certain point. Now if you gave me the keys to a standard transmission, base 911 you probably wouldn't see me for weeks. It has character, personality and image — all things you cannot quantify.

All that being said, I've got to ask: are quantified reviews bull#@!*?

MattDarringer - 7/3/2014 10:32:09 AM

+2 Boost

Car & Driver has always been BMW's bed slut. There have been several comparison tests where the BMW is bettered dynamically and Car & Driver will give the win to the BMW for an "intangible somethingness that transcends numbers".

It's not that BMWs aren't good cars, but rather that they are not so good that they vanquish all others. I'd rather drive an M4 than a 911. I prefer the looks by far. I prefer the sound of BMW engines to Porsche engines. I prefer the BMW because the engine is where it should be.

That said, the 911 crazies out there would not look at an M4 because it's not a 911.

Moreover, if the Sting Ray were in the mix, I'd take it in a heartbeat over the Germans.

BMWm4 - 7/3/2014 10:57:29 AM

+1 Boost

car magazines for years sometimes compare different classes of cars to offer some sort debate. Been happening for years, yet suddenly you are up in arms over a M4 compared to the 911. It is not that big of a stretch. Right Now Audi RS5 is not a fair comparison, The Mercedes C63 is due out in 2 years, Lexus RC-F is not even close to similar competiton. At the moment why not compare it to a 911. It is a little quicker, similar handling and larger ...

Agent00R - 7/3/2014 11:20:51 AM

+3 Boost

Your logic is completely flawed.

How is the RS5 NOT fair? How is the upcoming C63 AMG and RC F NOT going to be even similar competition?

BMWm4 - 7/3/2014 1:12:39 PM

+2 Boost

actually it is not flawed as RS5 was beaten in 5 of 6 comparisons to the E92 M3 and all the Audi fanboys are making a fact that wait til the New RS5 is out. Currently the M4 beat the RS5 quite handily.

RC-F will remain to be seen yet it is already starting out at a disadvantage and technically it is a much smaller car with 0 backseat. It would be more of a fair comparison to the New M2 due out next year.

The C63 will remain to be seen. It is also alot smaller from a space aspect, yet it should be pretty good performance barmoeter yet that car is at least a year out.

Technically comparing a 911 to a M4 is a pretty valid comparison.

scenicbyway12 - 7/3/2014 11:25:58 AM

+1 Boost

It's all a matter of perspective,

I have driven dozens of 911's, every time I get out of the car (the base 911) I think well it's fun and iconic, but why is it so noisy? Why is all the tech in this car devoted to keeping the rear end form becoming the front end in a corner. Where are basic standard feature the most cars have? Why does this thing cost a 100 grand, and why is the most important part of a Porsche cars resale value the MSRP sticker.

I have yet drive the new M, but I am currently driving a E90 M, for day to day use, and practicality, it is just easier to live with.

GermanNut - 7/3/2014 11:32:28 AM

+2 Boost

Quantified reviews are not bullsh*t. The problem with comparison tests that place cars in different categories against each other is that the results have very little real world value. Another words, the person looking at a 911 is 99.9% of the time NOT looking at a BMW M4. So even if the BMW M4 is better than the Porsche 911 (which it clearly is not) it still doesn't matter because a buyer will not have to make a decision between the two cars.

Comparing apples to oranges is useless because 99.9% of car buyers don't compare apples to oranges.

Sciros - 7/3/2014 11:37:27 AM

+2 Boost

Quantified reviews are fun to read! Who gives a crap which car they decide is the winner? It's ALWAYS subjective. I've seen cars lose by 2 points because they gave it 3 points fewer in the "must-have factor" category. What the hell kind of category is that, anyway? The only things must-have are food and shelter and possibly a Z51 Stingray...

No but seriously, YES they are total B.S. but I rather they keep doing them than not, because it means more articles and photos featuring cars I like. I mean if you don't do these head-to-head articles all the time, how do you perpetuate pointless-but-fun rivalries that sometimes even get manufacturers to improve their cars? The Vette kept getting dinged for interior finish relative to its competitors, and now its interior is pretty nice.

222max - 7/3/2014 2:09:52 PM

+1 Boost

I agree. They are, for the most part, completely subjective. What I hate is when the results are used (on internet forums) to beat on others as some sort of "proof" of which car is better.

cidflekken - 7/3/2014 1:52:56 PM

+2 Boost

I don't mind quantified reviews, but they can't NOT be written as quantified reviews.

For the M4/911 comparison, it's not as simple as just stating that an M4 beat a 911. There are more details that the article never mentions, that everyone is clearly aware of, that influenced the final result. IMO, the article should state that, as a functional 2-door performance coupe, the M4 wins, but as a performance driver-focused more expensive coupe, the 911 wins/scores higher....or something to that effect.

1dott8 - 7/3/2014 1:54:40 PM

+3 Boost

As an Audi guy, I can't get mad at BMWm4's comment. The M4 is better than the model it was designed to be better than, the RS5. They've had a few years to work on it so it is now better than the outgoing RS5. That won't make me lose any sleep. Now if it ends up outperforming the upcoming model then there is something to worry about.

lmariorod - 7/4/2014 6:39:11 AM

+1 Boost

As a similar Audi guy, the current RS5 with that sweet sounding 4.2 V8 but also nose heavy/torque pig cannot hang with any M. I believe that the current S5 SC V6 with an easy up tune, lighter MT, button down suspension and none of that torque braking/vectoring BS would hang better with the M.
The current RS5 has less torque than its little brother V6 S5. What M would allow its smaller sibling to have less torque?

chewy - 7/3/2014 8:40:10 PM

+2 Boost

Really impressed by the M3's acceleration, as someone mentioned earlier that engine is probably around the 500 mark.

lmariorod - 7/4/2014 6:46:32 AM

+1 Boost

Meant to say...what M would allow its smaller sibling to have MORE torque