Hybrids losing their shine

Oh oh....I can see a diesel vs hybrid flame war developing.

213 comments! My prediction!

Hydrogen - the way of the future!

diesel-the way now!
high 30s for the accord hybrid?
that isn't good. 40+ is possible with the diesel.

Pedal power FTW!

PlanoI knew you would find this story.
But I hoped that after reading it you would see it for the b.s. that it is, and not post it.

Will, not everyone who wants a hybrid has one, as evidenced by the fact that August hybrid sales continue the upward climb.

Rupert, Diesel is not the answer, it still burns petroleum based products. The next gen hybrids will have exceptional gas mileage, and possibly the ability to be plug-ins. That doesnt mean we shouldnt buy them now, as current sales momentum is what is driving the fast pace of technology development. Diesel also burns dirtier. Our air cannot afford diesel exhaust. The cleanest diesel cannot get certified in 5 states. And the EPA is not anti-diesel, they are anti-dirty air.

Now as for this ridiculous article...

"I think (hybrid) sales have spiked and leveled off"
The facts show that hybrids sales continue to climb.

"many hybrids are not getting the estimated EPA mileage advertised"
An overused myth. Many hybrid owners are getting at or above mileage claims, and most cars never achieve their EPA averages. In fact later in the article, they quote a hybrid owner who gets the advertised mileage

"but the waiting list is down to three months"
This is not showing a decreasing demand. The Prius waiting list has shrunk, while the hybrid motor is now available in 4 other Toyotas and Lexuses. The Prius itself has been up the past 2 months, despite the thousands of Camrys and Highlanders that are also being sold.

Toyota sold 20,000 hybrids last month alone. That 20,000 opportunities to conserve fuel and clean up the air.

1970Toyotamarc- Never underestimate me to find the smut on Hybrids out there.

I did post another article a bit later today that shows sales are up on Hybrids in August. The sales are up indeed, but those sales are probably based less on hype, and more on solid demand.

The hype is going away, and is now being replaced by the real tree huggers out there trying to make a difference. That is until these cars go to the landfill and cause another eco-nightmare. But that is another argument.

hybrids still burn petroleum products, the one called petrol!

diesels emit less CO2, the gas thought to be the most responsisble for global warming.

you know what conserves more fuel?
a motorbike.

plug in hybrids? thats better.
another reason for hybrid's good city mileage is because the engine is swithced off while stationary. citroen introduced this system on the c2 and it achieved 42 mpg (combined figure, not just town), instead of 39, with no change in weight or performance. if i could find data for just town driving, it would be even better.
and a citroen c1 1.4 hdi (a tiny diesel car) achieves better mpg than a prius, so it saves the planet more. buying a prius you therefore are killing baby seals (or whatever environmentalists care about now) more than a c1 1.4 hdi.
so hah.
also, in a test for the times driving( or telegraph motoring, not sure), the citroen c1 1.0 achieved an astonishing 67 mpg highway.
3 mpg may not sound much, but if just swithcing the engine off improves it by three pmg, they should all do it.

diesels,DiEsElS,DIESELS!

in my comment put the bottom 2 lines just after "it would be even better", and it makes more sense.

"a citroen c1 1.4 hdi (a tiny diesel car) achieves better mpg than a prius, so it saves the planet more"

Rupert, Priuses are mid sized family cars, not econoboxes. If we all drove c1s or Yarises the world's oil supply would run out more slowly, but environmental impact is more than that and you know it.

BTW, Diesels are pretty good at carbon monoxide emissions, but I cant find many studies that show a superiority to hybrids in carbon dioxide emissions. Please any diesel lover enlighten me, and please do so by comparing similarly sized vehicles

Plano, I did notice the other post on sales, also noticed no one could muster up a comment for it :)

i know about the size difference, but if you really cared about the environment, a gs450h, rx400h, ls600h or even a prius shouldn't be at the top of your list.
a motorbike or citroen c1 should.
or your legs, you lazy americans :P
and here is your co2 data :
vw golf 1.9tdi, 104 bhp, CO2 143grams per kilomtere.
vw golf 1.4fsi, 89 bhp, CO2 156 grams per kilometre.
so the diesel is bigger and more powerful but emits less CO2.
note that fsi also improves CO2 over a non-fsi engine. the 1.4 non-fsi has 168 grams of CO2 per kilomtere, and only 74 bhp.
diesel is better for the environment than a hybrid or petrol.
diesel hybrid would be amazing.

Rupert-

I live in Texas, and even though we have a large amount of "Lazy Americans" here, there are several issues that prevent walking. I work 27 miles from home and the nearest train station is about 12 miles away. I do actually take the train but the mass transit system is not as mature as overseas. The distances and infrastructure involved here are factors to consider.

We have been spoiled with ultra low gas prices for decades which have made Americans not feel the actual sense of urgency the rest of the world has. You see this in various parts of the middle east as well, low gas prices do not allow diesels and hybrids to flourish readily. So a lot of factors influence the decisions people make in transport.

This article pretty much was indicating the supply has met the demand and there is an adequate number of hybrids now.

We Americans will wake up soon enough, but the gas prices need to remain high to make us change our ways.


BTW if you want to take a road trip from one end of the state to the other end, your will drive about 850 miles. So many vacations in this state are by air to save costs.

i didn't mean long distance guys like you plano, i was meaning people who live in big cities like LA, chicago or NYC.
they've all got subways or trains haven't they?
in places like london and the home counties (the counties surrounding london) most people drive to the nearest station and catch the train to waterloo or euston or victoria, then cathc the tube.
if you live in greater london, you catch the bus or tube to work, or cycle or drive a moped.
america just doesn't have a dense enough population to allow the mass transit to be cost effective. japan, however, has over 120 million people squeezed in, so the trains are very cost effective, as nearly everyone catches them. britain may only have 60 million, but it has a much denser population than the US, which allows for better and more frequent public transport. distance is also involved, as america really is big, with lots of empty areas.

My money is on hydrogen as the best solution. As somebody pointed out above.. even a hybrid still uses petrol, so it still saps the oil reserves - albeit slightly slower than a diseasel.

Hydrogen is very clean, and if it was as commonly used as petroleum products it would be cheaper.