Suburban Soccer Moms Rejoice As BMW Gives Birth To It's First 7 Seat Minivan - The 2 Series Gran Tourer

The Ultimate Driving Machine. And soccer-mom wheels.

2016 Pontiac Montana

BMW's iDrive navigation system must be malfunctioning because they seem to be pretty lost these days.

Hey cidfekken: I totally agree. That's why I finally left BMW. Are we making mini vans, electric vehicles, sports sedans, only coupes, cars that look like coupes but with 4 doors. What a mess over there.

BMW please let me know when you reduce the weight in your 5 series; get rid of the terrible RUN FLAT tires and decide you don't need to cater to soccer moms when you have some of the BEST performance engines in your cars.

I guess now that the competition has moved into its turf, it's now going for a different market. Bmw, the ultimate baby carrier and 7 seat shopping cart.

Combination of my 10 years living abroad and seeing many of these small but flexible 6-7 seaters and my personal situation of 2 young children with occasional grandma, I absolutely love this segment. If this was to ever sell here in the US, have sliding door, and optional hybrid or diesel, I would be in heaven. And no, I'm not a BMW fan or anything, I just love this segment (like the current Mazda 5).

They have their place, that is for sure. But is it about the ultimate driving machine or the ultimate niche filler? I am getting confused

Then buy a GM, Ford, Chrysler, Kia, Toyota, Nissan, Mazda, MB, Audi, Chevy, Subaru, etc.

I'm tired of these so called sports sedan companies catering to the soccer mom's. Let see, X1, X2, X3, X4, X5, X6, X7; plus the 2 series, 3 series, 4, series, 5, series, 6 series, 7 series ohhhhh then we have the 3 series coupe, plus the 4 series coupe or is it a 4 door; we can't forget about the new i2 or i whatever electric vehicles.

Come On - And these car companies wonder why their LOYAL owners starting considering other auto makers. The 5 series I drove were wonderful. Now their overweight bloated cars.

I would take BMW back to being a purist sports car company. Lighter weight, focus back on performance and use a common sense approach. It's ok to have a several model line-up, but what's the real difference between a X3, X4, X5, X6 - they're all looking alike.

Good car, however its available in the US already in cheaper forms from other mainstream automakers, most notably Mazda.

The best one of these vehicles in the WORLD is the Renault Espace. Nissan is foolish for not re-badging it and selling it over here as an Infiniti Espace.

This 2-Series Grand Tourer is a perfect example of why BMW will lose its global sales lead within the next 5 years and likely sooner. How can you call yourself the 'Ultimate Driving Machine' and then launch a vehicle like this?

How can you call yourself the "Ultimate Driving Machine" and launch models like the 3-series sedan, 3-series GT, 4-series (which is supposed to be the two door version of the 3-series), 4-series Gran Coupe (which is the four door version of the 4 series, which itself supposed to be the two door version), X4 and X6 when none of them deliver the precise handling the brand built its reputation on?

BMW has lost its way. This is evident in not only its vehicles, but also in its inability to keep up with Audi's global growth rate over the past 5 years. BMW even replaced its CEO earlier than expected because BMW's profitability declined due to soaring production costs for all these new models and yet its sales growth failed to keep pace with the competition despite the proliferation of niche models.

"Then buy a...MB, Audi... etc. I would take BMW back to being a purist sports car company."

So if I understand correctly, your solution would be to tell buyers who like BMW and are buying these vehicles their competitors also make to buy vehicles from those direct competitors instead, so BMW can remain "pure", while those other manufacturers collect increased market share and profits.

Please for the love of God tell me you don't own a business. Btw, BMW was never a "pure sports car conpany". Ferrari made pure sports cars. Now they have FF's and large GT's. Porsche made pure sports cars. Now they have Cayenne's, Macan's, and Panamera's. Lamborghini has a sedan and an SUV coming out, for Christ's sake. Stop trying to run BMW out of business with these ridiculous double standards.

I don't disagree that it's smart business to seek ways to increase market share. But, last I read, BMW was behind Mercedes and Audi in profitability. They've also lost market share to Audi and Mercedes last year despite finishing first. And January of this year, they were 3rd. So, at what cost is BMW's pursuit of every possible niche in the marketplace? How big of a market is/was there to create demand for the 3GT, 5GT and these Active Tourers? At what cost to brand identity has this been costing BMW? How many loyal buyers have now migrated to other brands because of BMW's evolving image from sporty and dynamic to soft and soccer mom?

And the R&D to develop these "NEW" vehicles are immense. My sister works for Audi/VW (why I get family plan). Every auto company usually redesigns their models every 4-5 years for the most part. They obviously can't redesign their cars ever 1 year or 2 years. It would be silly and chew up profits. Adding ANOTHER model (this minivan now) to your line-up requires factory expense to build, R&D on the design and development of it, land purchase, marketing to advertise it, Mechanic training to fix it and much more other cost.

This is why car companies usually go 4, 5 or 6 years before a COMPLETE redesign. So now, I ADD this minivan to the lineup; ONLY if it sells in big volume (or their charging outrageous sticker prices on it) will we make a profit WORTH this investment. My sister at Audi actually works on the team that does some of the prototype cars to see if there is public interest (when they take them to various auto shows). She told me it's ENORMOUS the amount of research and development and testing before a car ever comes to the real market. (We don't want to have any of those Ford Pinto fireballs on hand ;-)).

Now add into the equation, the uncertainty that this vehicle will be a big hit. You have a potential disaster for a vehicle bringing down OVERALL PROFITS for the company. Plus your BMW enthusiast don't want a minivan in the picture. We already have enough variants in the line-up.

This is a POOR decision which will reflect BADLY on the BRAND IMAGE, as previously noted, "Is BMW the Ultimate driving Machine or Ultimate Minivan Hauler". Poor Management decision to even build this product. You don't have to always play "Monkey See, Monkey Do" (or you'll be the next GM and Chrysler with your hand-out). Sorry but a poor decision by BMW on this.

I agree with JRobUSC - BMW is leveraging off their strong brand and history of great handling cars to branch out and get more buyers via different segments and price points. I don't recall their recent 3/4s and M cars performing poorly so their core group of great handling MODELS are still the standard to measure by. I'm not into high performing cars so I'll take a C over a 3/4 but you must admit, those 3/4 and M cars are still the standard bearer when it comes to handling. So BMW is getting the best of both worlds, still making particular models that are great handling, and capturing additional buyers.

Well, not to offend, but you've basically been sleeping under a rock for the past 2 years. The 3/4 are no longer the benchmark for handling dynamics. They've been surpassed by the Lexus IS and Cadillac ATS, and possibly, soon, the Jaguar XE based on initial responses. The M4 is still holding its own for the most part, but that's not a volume car. The 5 Series has also fallen to last place in almost any comparison I've seen, almost unanimously. So, yeah, it's one thing to leverage your strong brand and history, but when your strong brand no longer represents what got them to the dance to begin with, then you're no longer that strong brand and everything is simply history.

A couple of thoughts, having worked as a business development associate and later as a client advisor for BMW......

1.) as far as small minivans / MPVs (like the Mazda5) go, the 2-Series Grand Tourer is actually really sharp, in my opinion.

2.) a lot of people complain that MB and now BMW are "diluting their brands" going after niche market segments......... but I think it makes great business sense. If a model in a new segment doesn't sell well, redesign it for the LCI or next generation, or get rid of it altogether, and exit the particular niche segment in question.

3.) I don't assume we'll be getting this MPV stateside... is there any word otherwise..? I would have preferred a 'real' minivan based on a 5-Series chassis...

4.) again, as far as minivans go, I think it's sharp. and, even if BMW's motto is "The Ultimate Driving Machine"............. doesn't have to mean every vehicle they sell is an ///M car. Look at GM-- they sell a GREAT sports car (the Corvette), but they have a lot of other 'lame' cars that still sell very well. Or, look at Nissan w/ their GTR, etc... I don't think it's diluting the brand at all........ look at VW's attempt w/ their Routan minivan (which was itself a re-badged Dodge Caravan / Chrysler Town & Country)....... it was by FAR the best handling minivan w/ the most 'German-feel' to the driving out there (aside from maybe MB's R-Class, which I haven't driven...)......... what I'm saying is, so long as BMW makes their 2-Series MPV to be the best driving vehicle in its class, I'm totally fine w/ it. Give it near 50/50 weight distribution, etc... not every car has to be an M3/M5/M6 in order to keep their "Ultimate Driving Machine" slogan-- but every model should strive to be best in class, you know?

5.) can we all agree this 2-Series Grand Tourer / minivan / MPV / Whatever is still wayyy better looking than the 5-Series GT?? :-D :-D :-D......... (I'm all about building consensus and finding common ground on this site.......... haha)

The people bashing this vehicle have absolutely ZERO vision.

Priced to start at $30K, this would be a runaway success.

$30K will get you four wheels and a steering wheel. We all know BMW makes buyers pay extra for almost any luxury option you can think of.

Cidflekken, you stated my views very clearly. BMW thinks it has room for all these niches, but it's clear to anyone that these niches have very small demand. Look at Audi, which has significantly fewer models than BMW, outselling BMW globally by almost 13K units. Just because you create more models doesn't mean people will buy them.

BMW's reputation is built on creating the sharpest handling sports-sedans in their respective segments, without fail. BMW was always a razor-sharp handling car that you bought for the fun factor first but it also happened to come with adequate luxury. That's exactly what the 3-series, M3s and M5s of the past were, without any question.

BMW thinks it can piggy-back off its heritage and dilute it into minivans, pointless crossovers and Gran Turismos. That strategy will be a failure and in fact already is. BMW's slower growth over the past 5 years and lower profitability than Audi, despite all these new niche models proves it.

Porsche has expanded successfully into sedans (Panamera) and crossovers (Cayenne and Macan) because Porsche has stayed true to its heritage. A Panamera will out-handle anything in its class and the same goes for the Cayenne and Macan. Porsche's entire reputation was built on building sports cars (the 911) that out-handled the competition for generations. Porsche is still more profitable than any other Volkswagen Auto Group brand because the sales and revenue are growing more than the costs.

I can't wait to see BMW keep diluting its brand and going after soccer moms while calling itself the "Ultimate Driving Machine" The sales and profitability figures will make BMW pay a dear price for all this niche-filling.

The Germans seem to be sticking their toes into every market possible.. and inventing a few. That said, would you rather have a Hyundai or would you pay $15K or so, more for this. I imagine alot of people will. Its a BMW and that says alot regardless of the product. It will ideally have BMW characteristics, and people will pay for that....