Reliable? How about the real numbers instead of the spin, JD Powers?

My 88 year old grandfather has a Buick. It's pretty reliable sitting in the garage 29 days a month. You may be on to something!

But the problems that some cars have are not really problems but cup holders that are to small for American tastes. (Can't have giant drinks as you blast down the autobahn @ 155 mph)

MY NAVIGATOR HAS OVER 55,000 MILES

MY NAVIGATOR HAS OVER 55,000 MILES

ANY ITS A 2001

WITH LIGHT PARTMENT EXT. AND INT

I don't think so.

My S4 cabrio ('05) has about 20K miles already, and I haven't had a single problem. And it's supposed to have "Poor" reliability according to CR! Bah!

But I am guessing that at lately there were no cup holder or mega-jumbo cup holders for that reason. I don't advice drinking a 72 ounce soda while going @ 155 mph.

That is why untill recently German automakers haven't put 3 cup holders per occupant or cupholders that will hold 2 liter soda bottles [They do know] Unfortunately some people considered that lack of quality and as "real" problems.

Carboy-
On my last visit to my Lexus dealership, I brought my dad and he asked the salesman how long they tend to last. The salesman took us out back and showed us a 1990 LS 400 with, if you can believe it, 550,000 miles on it. He let us look inside it, under the hood and everything. The engine was original, as were all of the parts and interior. And it still runs like it did 17 years ago. When Lincoln can accomplish that feat, let me know.

You want spin? This article and most of the responses are nothing but spin.

About the only thing I see that is reasonable and probably agreeable is that if possible, J. D. Power should report these things by mileage, equipment levels and usage. Can you say Taxi, police, emergency services, construction and so forth? I doubt there are many Lexuses (Lexi?), Hondas etc. being used and abused in the same manner.

An earlier poster stated "Buicks and Mercurys are driven a heck of a lot less than Hondas" while conveniently leaving out Lexus which probably suffers from the same syndrome to an extreme. How does the logic work that these cars are driven less, but all the other favorites like Acura and MB get a pass? And BMW, wow, there’s a real high-mileage commuter car for sure.

If you are going to cherry-pick your argument, you could claim that comparing Lexus to Honda is apples to Oranges. I would argue that comparing Civic to Marquis is also apples to oranges.

People that love to despise American cars are always citing J.D. Power, Consumer Reports, etc. until the numbers no longer support their positions, then lookout, here come the excuses.

For example, I believe Tundra beat F-150 in this study. I have no problem with that. However, for each Tundra I see being used by tradesmen, I see 100 F-150s getting the snot beat out of them. Why isn't that a problem for people who want to complain about the validity of this study?

Another little non-scientific example: I have 10-12 (too lazy to count ‘em) friends who own differing Mercedes vehicles and they almost unanimously think that quality-wise, MB has turned to crap. The J. D. Power survey bears this out, but according to some posters, apparently MB is driven vastly more miles than Lexus and even more than Mercury and company, so the survey must be bogus.

It's pretty entertaining to see people complain that some problems are not pertinent because they are 'trivial' (cupholders, etc.) as if trivial complaints are only registered for their personal favorite automobile.

BTW, the last report I saw indicated that the highest average annual mileage vehicle in the U.S. was the F-550 of all things. I have no idea what it is this year, but I'm sure no one cares about that either.

If you are going to be biased, admit it and stop whining when your favorite takes it in the shorts.

Have a nice day.

huu76, Do you think its time we disregard JD Powers surveys? Its very clear that their surveys are not as accurate as one might think. And it influences buyer's decisions too much. For me, if you like the car, buy it. Afterall, you are the one whose going to use it for the years to come. Make an educated decision and buy the car of your dreams (within your budget of course). Our family has owned several Nissans, Mitsubishis, Mazdas and Toyotas (In the 80s and 90s, we only have Japanese cars available in our country). All these brands are fairly good. It all boils down to aftersales support and warranty.

I'm pretty sure that someday soon, all major car brands will not be differing in quality that much (aside from heritage, snob appeal, etc.). Only in looks and price.

How is it possible for Honda to make it and Acura not be on the list? They are basically one in the same.

well i have different numbers for 3 years of ownership.
http://www.cartrackers.com/Forums/live/Toyota/417.html
cars purchased in 2003.
go acura! (i also love my TL) and well even though bmw is way up there, its still better than average :)
now remember these are 2003 model years, so dont get in a huff about the 2006 initial quality ratings.

I am glad some one brought that up.
My friends and I have noticed that quite often Accord drivers abuse their cars more than Camery drivers do.
I don't mean to offend any one, but here in N.Y. most of the Camery drivers are mostly females. Not that some women don't drive as hard as men do, but not as we do.

i think that nearly all cars are built similar with todays technologys and advanced machinery. gliches and recalls happen to every make. the real story are the idiots negleting and not maintaining their vehicles. 3 yrs is pointless. nothing should go wrong with a car in 3 yrs that cannot be attributed to the owner. even if it does it should be covered by a warrenty. they neeed to look at things 7-10 years down the road. as a former machinest i know that decades ago japanese car parts were made with finer tolerances than american cars and built a more reputable name. now thats changed and any new NC machine can make a 1000 parts with all deminsions +/-.0002 of an inch. now where they cut cost is exterior and interior materials or in american car cases, having their vehicles made and assembled in mexico or canada where they dont have to pay employees + labor unions

sorry i didnt really get to my point there, what i mean to say is that if drivin responsibly, taken care of, and not wrecked any new vehicle should stand the test of time and miles that you need from it. and we get people in our service dept all the time because a warning light came on because they didnt screw the gas cap on tight enough and stupid stuff like that. would this go down in jd powers list of "problems" with the particular make?

The biggest flaw in JD Power studies is that North American manufacturers are not swaying import buyers, they are selling to people who have been driving domestic vehicles all along. Therefore what JD Power studies are telling us is that north american quality is getting better, and the drivers of north american vehicles are generally happier with their vehicles. This does not mean the vehicles are better than the imports, only that they are getting better. The Japanese and European vehicles are held to a much higher standard than the North American vehicles because their drivers have have come to expect more.

Many of my friends drive 3 series BMWs and they've all had minor electrical problems. They love them in spite of the BMWs having those problems.

The problem with the raw #s from J.D. Power is that should really be broken down by type of problem. If its a powertrain problem, that's a huge problem, vs. minor electrial problems.

Hey guys just want to ask one question about reliability. Anyone have experience with Alfa Romeo's, particulary with 1980's Alfa Romeo Spider/Graduate in terms of reliability? I may buy one :).

My mother's car....
My friend's car.....
My last car.....

I'll stick to JD Power, thanks.

Several members have already pointed out the truth. JD Powers "does not distinguish" the severity of the problem. The system is flawed.

I bought my E39 530i used. In the beginning, I had some minor electrical bugs. Brought the car to BMW and had it ironed out. Now, 3 years later, my car has been flawless. JD Power my ass...

kart1,
1 word.
beigns with r and ends in ust.
also electrics, fluids, transmissions etc.
pretty much everything.

i agree with BMW530i especially on the last for words :p

four*

huu76, I totally agree.

thx Rupert

530i
I have a 2002 530i which has around 55000Kms which is about 34000miles I have to say i drove it quite hard, however i used to take care of it and heat it up etc... In the first 3 years i was really impressed and changed my view on BMW but after that, the interior started loosening up and wasn't half as solid as my 2000 Landcruiser, my mum's 2001 Avalon or my dad's 2003 LS430. At one point, i took it to the dealership for a full service and the estimation was around $10000, this included tyres but still it is much too much for a 2002 car. I really don't advise anyone to keep a BMW for more than 2 years and it can't be car to drive for long distances as it is uncomfortable unlike the TOYOTAS and LEXUS i have experience with.
My advice to anyone is TOYOTA LEXUS all the way.

Who is J. D. PowerS?

bigslick83: "3 yrs is pointless. nothing should go wrong with a car in 3 yrs that cannot be attributed to the owner. even if it does it should be covered by a warrenty. they neeed to look at things 7-10 years down the road."

but the fact remains, some cars are LESS ROBUST than others and problems DO occur within 3 years. that's what warranties are for to begin with.

further, the more reliable makes have FEWER warranty claims. even for problems fixed under warranty, it still COSTS the owners in time and inconvenience.

finally, you want problem records at 7 - 10 years? just check out any Consumer Reports Frequency of Repair chart tables. they only go out to 8 years, but that more than suffices to paint a picture of which cars are most reliable in the long term.

and CR's figures DO tend to back up the more lightweight JDP ones.

stimlinq: "Many of my friends drive 3 series BMWs and they've all had minor electrical problems. They love them in spite of the BMWs having those problems.

"The problem with the raw #s from J.D. Power is that should really be broken down by type of problem. If its a powertrain problem, that's a huge problem, vs. minor electrial problems. "

the CR FoR charts do breakdowns by types of problems. the german makes DO have higher than average problem rates on electricals.

thanks apex never knew about that source.

huu as far as the labor unions go i dont think they have to pay them in canada more because of the cost of health care. remember health care is largly responsible for fords profit deficits. canadian health car=far less expensive than americas. even micheal moore will tell you that in his new movie. (YUCK!) anyway im not dogging on the cars made in canada, im just saying car companies have a reason for having plants in canada. and i can bet its cost.