Toyota and Nissan May Look to GM for Help on Diesel V8's

In its 50-year history in the US, Toyota has never sourced an engine for its vehicles from an outside supplier. There is a possibility that this may change if Toyota decides to put a diesel in its new Tundra full-size pickup truck. While we think it's more likely for Toyota to leverage its Hino commercial truck division, it could decide to pick from many of the U.S. diesel engine manufacturers that are developing smaller displacement diesels for Ford, GM, and Dodge. Nissan is also courting a U.S. manufacturer to supply a V8 diesel for its Titan pickup (although Nissan also has it's own diesel manufacturing capability). No one seems to be mentioning Isuzu as a possible supplier, as it has extensive experience with diesels, both large and small (it is currently suppling the DuraMax diesel used by GM).

Regardless, Toyota sees through its cloud of hybrid hype to realize that truck buyers may actually want an oil-burning engine, perhaps more so than a pack of batteries and an electric motor. The domestics have finally gotten the hint that if they're going to continue to sell full-size trucks, they need to team up their body-on-frame bread-and-butter with a high-tech low displacement diesel to get all the fuel economy they can. Now Toyota is looking to go down that path, and it will be interesting to see whether it chooses to develop an engine in-house or go outside to another supplier.
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kart1 - 9/19/2006 11:51:37 AM

+1 Boost

Both possibilities are possible. But it all depends on how serious Toyota is on making a diesel truck. The engine coming from Hino is a good possibility.

carfan3 - 9/19/2006 12:22:06 PM

+1 Boost

does hino have a V8 diesel? all i can find is info about their 4 or 6 cyl.

BMW530i - 9/19/2006 2:38:21 PM

0 Boost

Excuse me for saying this, but: The Lexus fan(s)[boys] claimed that Toyota will go HYBRID. So why are they contemplating the idea of mating a DIESEL with the Tundra? ;)

Interesting that they're going to GM. When I think GM + Diesel, I think of the Oldmobile 350cid V8: a converted gasoline engine. What a POS that was. My uncle on my fathers side had one of those in some late '70s Cadillac Seville (that shortback version) and the problems it caused was downright shameful. Worse, the A/T transmission kept locking up too.

Now, GM does have a few brands which make a reliable diesel, but the best diesels come from Europe hands down. The Mercedes 4.2 V8 CDI could be sourced for instance. Perfect for a heavy truck like the Tundra. If Toyota wants a good Japanese diesel, they need to go to Isuzu: which is also owned by GM.

1970toyotamarc - 9/19/2006 4:23:01 PM

+1 Boost

I was hoping this article would be the original Automotive News article, not the copy from Autoblog. This articel seems to clearly be the Autoblog author's point of view instead of a factual article.
"Toyota sees through its cloud of hybrid hype..." That just doesnt sound like something Automotive News would print. Anybody have the original article?

lexusis350 - 9/19/2006 5:43:29 PM

+1 Boost

I don't think that they will turn to GM for help. At least not Toyota. In Europe, they have a diesel Lexus, which isn't the same kind of diesel, but they've got to be able to develop their own for a truck. I can tell you one thing, a GM engine in a Toyota will bring down their famous reliability way down.

S4cabriofox - 9/19/2006 9:24:56 PM

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Will-

You're pretty obviously been fighting diesels and touting hybrids, and there's no denying that.

XYZZ - 9/20/2006 1:50:02 AM

+1 Boost

Will:
"? Who said that? There's nothing wrong with Toyota going diesel if all other brands (including GM) already have diesels!"

toyota had a diesel truck some TWENTY YEARS ago!
it was a 4=banger in the compact p/u. an idea ahead of its time.

friend of mine's step son is driving a VW diesel pickup of roughly the same vintage. it gets 40+ mgp.

woood - 9/20/2006 2:00:56 AM

0 Boost

Toyota has an in-line 6 turbo diesel engine currently in use by various Landcruiser models around the world. Its the most reliable diesel engine by far in the world. Its called the 1HD-T engine. It is also being used by the Coaster minibus in non-turbo guise. I'm not sure whether this engine meets new emissions laws though. Isuzu can supply turbo 4 or V8 diesels to practically any automaker. Isuzu is partly owned by GM.

BMW530i - 9/20/2006 6:15:58 AM

+1 Boost

huu76,

Small diesels are sort of a waste.
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???

BMW530i - 9/20/2006 6:18:23 AM

+1 Boost

Toyota has an in-line 6 turbo diesel engine currently in use by various Landcruiser models around the world. Its the most reliable diesel engine by far in the world.
========================================

Just because Toyota makes it? Give me a break.

Diesel engines, if constructed properly, are a reliable design in itself. Hence the GM 350 was a POS because it was a converted gas engine. If GM had done a diesel from scratch and really constructed it PROPERLY, you can bet that it would have been reliable as hell.

Also, the German diesels are very reliable. You don't hear them giving up the ghost.

BMW530i - 9/20/2006 6:19:34 AM

+1 Boost

Will,

? Who said that? There's nothing wrong with Toyota going diesel if all other brands (including GM) already have diesels!
==============================================

Let me get this straight. First, you proclaim that diesels are outdated technology and that Toyota will never work on outdated technology. Now, it's "ok" for them to use it? You confuse me...

BMW530i - 9/20/2006 7:27:20 AM

+1 Boost

To be honest, I don't ever recall you calling diesels outdated technology either, but you seemed to be very anti-diesel.

Are you softening up now just because Toyota plans to use one? :p

bigslick83 - 9/20/2006 1:36:21 PM

+1 Boost

the answer:

Diesel-hybrids!!!!!

quote by BMW530i

"Interesting that they're going to GM. When I think GM + Diesel, I think of the Oldmobile 350cid V8: a converted gasoline engine. What a POS that was."

"If Toyota wants a good Japanese diesel, they need to go to Isuzu: which is also owned by GM."

wouldn't the be getting a GM "POS" deisel engine tho?

quizz - 9/20/2006 2:44:31 PM

+1 Boost

modern American made diesel engines are actually very reliable; it's the other stuff (electronic gadgets) that bog down the reliability. Most diesel engines developed in America are specifically for commercial grade vehicles like small trucks and big-rigs, both of which require durability for 200,000 miles.

Toyota will not suffer reliability issues by sourcing American diesel engines, as long as they do the assembly and electronics through Toyota.

BMW530i - 9/20/2006 6:48:00 PM

+1 Boost

bigslicks,

wouldn't the be getting a GM "POS" deisel engine tho?
============================================

GM pretty much allows Isuzu free reign with their engineering. Also, modern GM owned (company) diesels are considerably better than that POS 350cid from the 70s. I had a relative who had that motor. POS can't even begin to describe it...

XYZZ - 9/21/2006 4:25:42 AM

+1 Boost

will:
"Surely, adding an electric motor would mean that the diesel engine could be smaller, and not an expensive larger one. "

read a review of the GS450 hybrid. there is SO MUCH TORQUE off the line, full output is electronically limited under 20 mph. and that has a gas engine.

a diesel-hybrid could make do with a smaller engine.