IF BMW Stops Offering Manual Transmissions And Caps Power, Is The M Division Making A HUGE Mistake?

IF there's a consumer demand for M cars with a manual transmission, and IF BMW can meet that demand in a cost-effective manner, then they'd be foolish not to give customers what they want and come away with a sizeable profit.

Mind you, I don't know if those IFs are true or not.

re: Capping power to 600 hp

For virtually all drivers on the road, capping power at 600 hp or allowing it to go higher is the difference between "well beyond my skills" and "well beyond my skills, and then some."

You saw this phenomenon when the Suzuku GSX-R1000 motorcycle came out. It was crazy powerful, it was winning races, and it could be had at a reasonable price. This resulted in lots of people buying the bike believing they bought instant street cred. It also resulted in a flurry of dropped and crashed GSX-R1000s!

The horsepower wars in street cars are there for bragging rights. You only have 600hp? Dweeb! I can smoke you. I have 720! Meh.

@TheSteve It absolutely annoys me the number of people who buy cars that are "'well beyond my skills' and 'well beyond my skills, and then some.'" and never go to a performance driving school. They often "over" drive their cars without knowing it and the car bites them in the ass.

I was at a venue about six months ago with a used, stick-axle, V6 automatic Mustang that I'd borrowed from the used car lot just for spits and giggles and I was going faster than some much better cars.

There was one particular Captain Slow who asked if I was interested in taking his car for a spin. Have a go in a Cayman? Sure! I thought it was just the guy being neighborly or something, but he had an ulterior motive.

He was noting the speeds I was carrying through corners. He then went out and trued to go carry the speed I had maintained through the first corner and he spun out.

Knowing what speed a car will do a corner does not mean anyone can do it.

The "would you like to drive my car" has happened to me twice and in both cases the owner tried to do what I have learned how to do.

I love horsepower believe me, but carping about capping at 600 horsepower is crazy because 400 horsepower is readily available and way beyond the capabilities of most of the owners of those cars.

My rules:

If you have a fast car, know know to drive it fast.

Streets and roads are not your race track, so don't pull a Rodas/Walker and jack butt around on public streets.

If you want to drive at the limit, go to a track.

MDarringer: +1

I've done performance training, on a professional track, with professional racers as instructors. In the first 1/2 day, I realized I was in way over my head. I didn't have what it took to drive in a performance-oriented manner, nor was I prepared to dedicate the time, effort, and cost to build my skills to a proficient level.

What I did learn was a lot of risks, such as the danger of variable-traction surfaces (e.g., do you know for sure that the blind corner you're racing into doesn't have some sand on it?), and the critical importance of cutting the perfect line using the right amount of throttle, brake, momentum, and at the right times.

I was also impressed how a "girl" with a much less powerful machine was passing guys who had much more power. Simply put, she could make much better use of the power she had, and she lost them all in the curves (though they tried to make it up in the straightaways).

Yeah, getting that track training was an eye-opening experience for me. I'm perfectly happy driving a 240hp diesel SUV, knowing even that even this is beyond my limits in the twisties. And I don't feel the least bit bad knowing someone's vehicle might have more power than mine, or the driver is more skilled than me.

By stating this or adopting this he is putting limits and constraints on future M cars. Why do that? Even if you happen to not make an engine over 600hp why put that limit up front as some kind of policy? It makes no sense to me and is a mistake. The head of M should never think about limits.

It just may be a ruse to motivate people to buy now for fear for not getting a powerful and manual shift M car.

BMW cannot make M cars impotent. The M badge is the backbone of the BMW image and heritage.

Manuals are dying but to limit the power is a mistake...they will have to find ways to build lighter and more fuel efficient cars but the problem is that the whole list of gadgets in the new cars is adding a lot of weight and the only way to fight against that is better materials and more power, so yes, is a mistake..

As much as I hate to see manuals go, automatics are much more intelligent these days and paddle flippers shift faster than a manual.

The horsepower cap is misleading given that hybridization is growing. Thus 600hp in a hybridized vehicle act like much more than 600hp.

You know Matt I actually agree with you this time. Couldn't have said it better.

There will always be a group of enthusiasts who want manuals and will gravitate toward Corvettes, Mustangs, etc...manuals still more engaging and offer greater bond between man and machine. Regarding capping horsepower, this will only work if Mercedes and Audi agree as they once did topping out high end speed at 150mph. If not BMW will drop this limitation as soon as competitors start taking market share with ever more horsepower.

I love a manual. However I do admit given the governmental requirements for fuel economy, gas power to fuel 600 HP is reaching a technological limit. As Darringer says it needs to come from hybrid technology. As it currently stands you cannot get decent fuel economy or reach governmental fuel standards by getting 600 HP out of a gas engine only. Unless someone comes up with a radical efficient combustion engine design HP through gas engines have really reached their limit. Dual clutch transmissions have proven to be more efficient than manual transmissions in addition to switching gears many times faster.

There are at least two questions to answer about the Manuals
1 - How many actual manual versions are sold
2 - Are they Profitable?

The question about POWER is less relevant - since I assume they will use other methods to improve performance - such as weight reduction and active aerodynamics. ANd you can bet that if they cannot compete without adding more power - that limitation will go away - or the cars will go away.

Manuals are a dying breed. Eventually, no one will make them. Who would have thought, only ten years ago, that Ferrari and Lamborghini would abandon manuals?