Go Figure?: California Sues GM, Ford, Toyota Over Global Warming

Go Figure?: California Sues GM, Ford, Toyota Over Global Warming
General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and four other automakers were sued by California for making vehicles that contribute to global warming, causing pollution and erosion that costs the state millions of dollars.

The lawsuit filed today in U.S. District Court in Oakland said General Motors, Ford, Toyota Motor Corp., DaimlerChrysler AG, Honda Motor Co. and Nissan Motor Co., the six largest automakers in the U.S., have created a ``public nuisance'' by making millions of vehicles that emit huge quantities of carbon dioxide, a greenhouse gas that contributes to global warming.

The suit, which seeks damages related to pollution, beach erosion and reduced water supplies, is the latest action by California to push businesses and the federal government to address global warming. The legislature approved a measure last month to force utilities to cut emissions, and the state has sued the U.S. for failing to address the effects of global warming.

``Vehicle emissions are the single most rapidly growing source of the carbon emissions contributing to global warming, yet the federal government and the automakers have refused to act,'' said California Attorney General Bill Lockyer in a statement.

California has already targeted carmakers with rules that would require them to lower emissions. The state enacted rules in 2004 that would force them to cut the amount of carbon dioxide and other tailpipe gases by up to 30 percent in cars sold in the state. Several other states have adopted or are weighing similar rules.

Overturn

Edward Cohen, a spokesman for Honda, and Dave Barthmuss, a spokesman for General Motors, didn't immediately return calls seeking comment.

Automakers are suing to overturn these rules. Redesigning cars to address such restrictions would cost the industry billions of dollars, carmakers have claimed, especially in the California market. The state asked a federal court on Sept. 15 to throw the case out. The judge has yet to rule.

California legislators approved the toughest pollution limits in the U.S. last month, requiring utilities, oil refineries and other companies to cut emissions tied to global warming by 25 percent in the next 14 years. California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, a Republican who is seeking re-election this year, said he supports the measure.

Burning Gasoline

Carbon dioxide is a byproduct of burning gasoline. Car companies say the only way to meet California's emissions rules is to reduce vehicle fuel consumption. They claim the state is trying to regulate fuel economy, or the number of miles a car runs on a gallon of gas, a standard which is set by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

Automakers including GM, Honda, and Toyota said they are developing so-called fuel-cell cars in response to consumer demand for better fuel economy amid higher gas prices. Fuel cells produce only water vapor as a byproduct.

The lawsuit is California v. General Motors, U.S. District Court, Northern District of California.
Read Article

justbrownjustbrown - 9/20/2006 4:11:21 PM
+2 Boost
Seriously??


shiftrightshiftright - 9/20/2006 4:11:49 PM
+3 Boost
California has got to be the nuttiest state in the Union. If they want to sue anyone they should sue their citizens who buy those cars.

I do not think I could ever live in the Socialist State of California, ever.


Jay7Jay7 - 9/20/2006 5:06:01 PM
+4 Boost
The citizens of California should sue the State for wasting their tax dollars.


mstangpny07mstangpny07 - 9/20/2006 5:15:36 PM
+1 Boost
That's stupid


DallasMR2DallasMR2 - 9/20/2006 5:20:46 PM
+2 Boost
that is so rediculous. they should sue all the residents of the state for buying the cars. if they didn't buy them there wouldn't be the pollution problem, right?

also, this is made even more rediclulous becasue Honda is the cleanest car company in the world. AND they have supplied CA with several fuel cell cars to their govt agencies...i wonder if this will continue.


webguywebguy - 9/20/2006 5:38:55 PM
+3 Boost
Wow. I already thought this country was a little too sue-happy... apparently now you can sue for problems that you can't even prove exist.

Ironically, the legislators are probably using the cars of the companies they’re suing to get to the courthouse. This isn’t suing, it’s extortion.



lexusis350lexusis350 - 9/20/2006 5:56:58 PM
+2 Boost
That's a bunch of crap. They sue the top selling vehicles for global warming. They can't even prove global warming. What kind of tree hugging morons is California made up of?


RupertRupert - 9/20/2006 6:01:17 PM
+2 Boost
but think of al the water vapour released into the sky if we use fuel cells.....
it would be constantly raining.
i'd rather it got a bit hotter.
we sure could use it here...


and anyway, sueing ford? sue mother nature for making los angeles blocked in by mountains and sea, why don't you? it would be an easier case...
they can't even prove golbal warming! it actually got cooler from 2000-2006.


BMW530iBMW530i - 9/20/2006 6:01:49 PM
+1 Boost
California should sue its own damn citizens. These are the assholes who drive around in gas-guzzling SUV's or leave their engine running while exiting the car to go into a 7-11 for some snack.

The truth however is that cars are not the only cause of global warming. So is our industry, some of which has not been properly upped to standards like in Europe for example. Then again, also at fault are countries like Russia, India, China and other emerging markets. They're industrializing at a quick rate, but their technology is still outdated from a Western POV. Outdated technology = pollution.


lexusis350lexusis350 - 9/20/2006 6:11:12 PM
+2 Boost
BMW530i-
"California should sue its own damn citizens. These are the assholes who drive around in gas-guzzling SUV's or leave their engine running while exiting the car to go into a 7-11 for some snack."
-------------------------------------------------------For once, I agree with you. Cars aren't responsible for the pollution as much as the people who drive the cars are. Californians have to put the blame on someone if something goes wrong, they're too arrogant to realize it was them, not someone else.


BMW530iBMW530i - 9/20/2006 6:30:07 PM
+2 Boost
California has some pretty messed up laws about emissions and smoking for example. But since I am a non-smoker, I support them on that. The emission aspect however is pretty unfair. They ban diesel-powered vehicles for example, but a gas-guzzling SUV is ok? The more fuel you burn, the more emissions you release, regardless of ULEV or LEV certificate. If California was truly as environmentally conscious as they claim to be, the first thing they'd do is ban SUV's outright. But they don't.

Hippocrites.


bigslick83bigslick83 - 9/20/2006 7:03:55 PM
+1 Boost
is it just me or is it time we forced california to succeed from the union. just tell them to kick rocks or we will blow them off into the ocean. then no other country will trade with them because of the lawsuit threat. then they can be like the big bully who has no one to play with on the playground. screw califonia, the aclu, and nambla. and screw micheal moore and al gore too. screw um all then move them to california.


chewychewy - 9/20/2006 7:26:07 PM
+1 Boost
Feel bad for my state. Sound like complete idiots. But, GAS GUZZLER TAX FOR SUVS AND PICKUPS MAKES SENSE. CALIFORNIA SHOULD GO AHEAD AND MAKE IT MANDATORY INSTEAD OF LOOKING LIKE IDIOTS.


sewingmachinesewingmachine - 9/20/2006 8:04:07 PM
+2 Boost
lets sue candy factories, electronic companies etc... for all the waste going in the landfill


silverarrow2silverarrow2 - 9/20/2006 8:05:29 PM
+5 Boost
What's next? May be suing Hospital doctors for delivering a baby girl instead of a boy.


BMW530iBMW530i - 9/20/2006 8:54:20 PM
+2 Boost
LOL @ Silverarrow. Good one, cracked me up.


chewychewy - 9/20/2006 9:45:07 PM
-1 Boost
Mercedes Benz deserves the most blame. They should be triple sued.


lexusis350lexusis350 - 9/20/2006 10:38:53 PM
+1 Boost
Chewey-
I don't know whether you were being sarcastic by saying they should sue Mercedes triple, but Mercedes, Like Toyota, GM, and Ford, did nothing wrong. I know, me defending Mercedes but the whole thing is ridiculous.


chewychewy - 9/20/2006 11:30:09 PM
+1 Boost
Well, those Germans that made Mercedes invented the automobile, they are the most responsible for all the problems in the world. Wink. Wink.


elviososaelviososa - 9/21/2006 12:54:10 AM
-1 Boost
If not because of CA...do you think you can live a longer life?? I think without the CA's "nuttiest" idea, we might have acid rain every time when it rain in the US...More people would have problems with their respiratory system....and so on....


BMW530iBMW530i - 9/21/2006 7:43:15 AM
+1 Boost
Mercedes Benz deserves the most blame. They should be triple sued.
=======================================
But they never made gas-guzzling vehicles in large numbers like the American car industry in the 1950s onwards. Your typical 1950s suburban American family had two V8 powered cars with horrendous fuel economy. Europe during this time drove around in small 4-cylinders and diesels.


Triniazda3Triniazda3 - 9/21/2006 7:54:33 AM
+2 Boost
Myths about Global Warming

The Clinton administration had decided to commit the United States to finalizing a treaty in December 1997 that would impose legally binding, internationally enforceable limits on the production of greenhouse gases, primarily carbon dioxide (CO2). That decision was based on the belief that global warming is significant, that humans are its primary cause and that only immediate government action can avert disaster.

Yet there is no scientific consensus that global warming is a problem or that humans are its cause. Even if current predictions of warming are correct, delaying drastic government actions by up to 25 years will make little difference in global temperature 100 years from now. Proposed treaty restrictions would do little environmental good and great economic harm. By contrast, putting off action until we have more evidence of human-caused global warming and better technology to mitigate it is both environmentally and economically sound.

Much of the environmental policy now proposed is based on myths..........

Since Carbon Dioxide is the all time "hated-gas" then I must inform Autospies readers that if all combustion-engine cars ever made (probably 2 billion)were still alive and kicking today with the new and current ones and left them running on infinite tanks of gas for 100 years with no cat converters it still would not compare to the volume of carbon dioxide and sulphuric gases that escaped in immeasureable quantities from the volcanoes that erupted during the 20th century only (and folks we had over 2 dozen bad-boy mountains - remember Mt. Helena and the more recent Mt. Soufrierre that destroyed the island of Monsterrat!)

As a geoscientist, we have empirical data from ice cores in the Antarctic and rock / soil records which document atmospheric changes in the Earth like a giant tape recorder and I can safely tell you that is the Earth goes through cyclic changes of climate and weather. The Earth pollutes itself (volcanoes, yellowstone park geysers, deep ocean hot vents etc) and it cleanses itself (through yet to be defined methods but possibly due to storm events like hurricanes etc)

Yes we humans have affected nature but I do not think it is nearly as bad as some people report it to be. Many universities and sadly some private and government agencies spell gloom and doom for the masses mainly to secure more money for "research" to "fix" the problem. It is amazing that in 1905 the Wright Brothers flew their plane and by 1969 we flew to the moon but in 2006 we cannot think about going to Mars and our cars still run on a liquid. Worst...we still cut down trees to make money notes.

Greed and not Global Warming would be the end of Mankind.

PS. The Governator of California drives a 9mpg Hummer so therefore he is a................



TheMechanicTheMechanic - 9/21/2006 10:32:41 AM
+1 Boost
Bill night school Lockyer is an idiot he is the only Attorney General to be elected and not even be an attorney he studied at night school he is so anti firearm it is pitiful. He knows nothing of firearms, and even less when it comes to automobiles. New testing (smog check program) is only marginal in its effectiveness as it is used more as a revenue generator than a reduction of pollutants. As we reduce the amount of older cars and trucks in California through attrition the newer vehicles are so clean most emit nothing but water vapor, CO2 (carbon dioxide the stuff plants breath), and Nitrogen (N2) naturally occurring. The normal pollutants are CO (carbon monoxide the odorless colorless and deadly (causes oxygen starvation) gas) HC hydrocarbon or basically raw gasoline, and NOx basically a reactive gas produced when combustion chamber temperatures go above 2500F degrees (this is the stuff that reacts with sunlight and HC to produce smog or photochemical haze) all of these are at the lowest levels in history the B.S. that CO2 is some evil pollutant is one more way to control you and me just like they take one firearm at a time until you have none. These people know none of what they speak and will destroy economies as well as our choice to buy what you want. I am not just pulling this out of my a** either you can read most of this garbage as you find the articles that I have read and researched from EPA, to the Department of Consumer Affairs, to the Bureau of Automotive repair. They will not admit to it in public as their jobs would be in jeopardy but in private you would not believe what is admitted to. Corruption that would make Boss Hogg blush

--------------------
"Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!" —Patrick Henry



johannasjohannas - 9/21/2006 10:56:51 AM
0 Boost
yes, I'm looking for the anti-environment chatroom...


MunichRobMunichRob - 9/21/2006 12:27:49 PM
+2 Boost
I hate this global warming subject. Not every scientist is convinced that human activity is raising the Earths temperture.

These environmental montra's we hear on TV everyday, brain-wash us to believe the sky's falling. I remember back to the so called "oil crisis" scare where they said almost indefinitly, that we'd be through the Earth's oil supply within 20 years. Well it's 25 years later and the oil industry is still going strong.

How can we know for a fact human activity is changing the Earth's climate, Earth's most signifcant climate changes took place thousands of years before the industrial revolution began.

While I believe in reducing & preventing damaging pollution, I don't believe man acttually has the sheer power to change the climate of Earth. Throughout the billions of years Earth's been here, and the traumatic experiences it's been through...I'm sure it can handle humans day-to-day activites.


1970toyotamarc1970toyotamarc - 9/21/2006 12:32:34 PM
-1 Boost
Believe me, ther are a lot of us in Calfornia that would love to secede from the rest of the fly-ovr states. (that's secede, Bigslick, not succeed, we are plenty successful here, thank you very much. The rest of your post is a piece of crap, so I wont comment further.)

The state of California spends millions cleaning up after the auto industry. Citizens pay their share through taxes, DMV fees, smog checks, etc. This lawsuit likely has little merit as it is currently presented, but it opens up a debate (can of worms?) about how much a car manufacturer is responsible for the environmental damage they create. Much like what cigarette mfrs have paid for what they have wrought on the nation's health care system.

Triniazda3, dont know how you are such an expert, but every peer-reviewed scientific study on global warming reveals that it is accelarating at an alarming rate, and in direct proportion to the dramatic rise in CO2. Cars are but one factor in this, a large one. The reason why car mfrs can be viewed as responsible is because the technology exists to battle the problem, but few mfrs are willing to put the product out there. Toyota clearly leads this, but even they could do better. Maybe this lawsuit will change some business practices to value green earth as well as green money.


TheMechanicTheMechanic - 9/21/2006 12:41:49 PM
+2 Boost
If you are old enough to remember we were once in peril of the next ice age global cooling, you can not stop mother nature. you and i can not (even if we were to try) cause any change in global temp these are all natural occuring warming and cooling like summer and winter on a grand scale.


TheMechanicTheMechanic - 9/21/2006 12:55:59 PM
+2 Boost
a couple of good articles on the false global warming scare.

this one by John Stossel
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/JohnStossel/2006/07/05/a_convenient_lie

and here is a great article on the cost to you and me for the insignificant temp change humans have on our environment kinda puts all the greenies in the dirt as chicken little sky is falling idiots


TheMechanicTheMechanic - 9/21/2006 12:56:28 PM
+1 Boost
forgot the link
http://www.junkscience.com/MSU_Temps/Kyoto_Count_Up.htm


TheMechanicTheMechanic - 9/21/2006 1:02:58 PM
+1 Boost
and toymarc, site your research on how Kalifornia spends millions on cleaning up for auto makers this should be good. Remember the people on this forum are pretty educated so don't try and buffalo us. I don't do the chicken litte.


jasongoudiejasongoudie - 9/21/2006 1:04:07 PM
+3 Boost
I am glad to see their are others out their that don't belive this crap!! All of you that believe are just lemmings. This was all made up by people that didn't have a job and wanted a grant to travel around the world and do what they wanted to do. Do these beat-knicks actually contribute to society or will they be the downfall!!

P.S. Rupert what happened are you now jumping on the bandwagon???


jasongoudiejasongoudie - 9/21/2006 1:32:55 PM
+2 Boost
1970toyotamarc; Your post is typical ignorant lefty based on absolutely no facts. All of the other posts challenging the myths have facts behind them. Where are yours!!!!


supermotosupermoto - 9/21/2006 3:30:38 PM
+2 Boost
I'm pleased that not everyone has fallen for this global warming bs. Althought I see that Branson has, to the tune of $3 billion of his own money. Sucker!


bigslick83bigslick83 - 9/21/2006 4:03:53 PM
+2 Boost
cali lawyers pioneered tort lawsuits that are robbing the avg consumer in health care, insurance, and yes even the auto industry. i remember when i was a machinist, all of our drills, mills, and grinders carried a warring that went something like this:

"Use this product only as directed by manufacturer. Wear saftey glasses and face mask while in use. Using this product has been found to cause cancer in the state of california."

no joke, it said this because of frivolous lawsuits by lawyers who could not make a regular living interpreting the law. sure i may be an easy target because of mindless spelling errors but believe me, i pronounce the words correctly and you would never engage me in a direct debate on the subject because your argument holds no substance. its just common talking points that your peers have forced you to memorize. california can kiss my ass and sue me for saying it. idc


topneurotopneuro - 9/21/2006 4:37:41 PM
+2 Boost
California should sue its own government officials they backed up electric car legislation and quotas, which resulted in the introduction and sales of electric vehicles like the Toyota RAV4 in 1996 (4 passengers 150 miles charge range) and then backed off and changed the law resulting in the recall and destruction of many of the fully operational vehicles. Some lucky owners manage to convince Toyota to allow them to keep their Electric RAV4’s.


1970toyotamarc1970toyotamarc - 9/21/2006 5:51:35 PM
0 Boost
Mechanic..."Remember the people on this forum are pretty educated"
I didnt know you were conducting demographic research on Autospies readers. I'll make sure to consult your wealth of data in the future.

jasongoudie, "All of the other posts challenging the myths have facts behind them"
I didnt read one FACT from any of the autospies posts on this article defending your right-wing position. I read a lot of opinions and links to more opinions. Example, the John Stosssel and junkscience links contains no facts, just more propaganda. I am only going to send one of the numerous links to studies showing scientific proof of global warming and its relationship to various, including human, sources http://www.greenfacts.org/climate-change/global-warming/global-warming.htm

Clearly anyone who is linking John Stossel or junkscience as the basis for their opinions isnt interested in the truth. If you're really that interested, and you're likely not, I am sure you can operate Google to find much more. Besides, every link that I could provide will just be taken as left wing propaganda by readers like yourself who refuse to believe anything that doesnt agree with the latest Bush/Limbaugh/Haliburton talking points.

Mechanic, you can google AQMD's operating budget if you want to know how much it is costing to clean up the air currently, and who pays for it. But I'm sure you just think the money spent by AQMD, EPA and other environmental agencies is a watse anyway, so whats the point.

Ignorant Auto snobs, so-called enthusiasts, who troll Autospies have this inane belief that you can only love cars if....
1. you don't care about their environmental, economic or social impact
2. you drive a stick
3. you believe handling is everything, until BMW (if ever) makes a higher horsepower engine than its competition, and then horsepower will be everything
4. you believe diesel rules, and hybrids are hype
5. you think Toyotas and Lexuses are appliances.

I'm tired of the b.s. Wake up!! You can enjoy the artistic beauty, engineering marvel, and driving joy of the automobile in a ecologicaly friendly, sustainable way.


TheMechanicTheMechanic - 9/21/2006 6:20:55 PM
+1 Boost
Fully awake toyo dont need to go to your Al Gore site just the same as you attempt debunking my facts. no prej against the imports at all and anyone who wants to pay the extra money for a 1000lb battery in thier mini car go right ahead. I think it will be quite funny to see their electric bill in Kalifornia and find out that they were crushed in a fender bender by my wifes SUV (not wishing any ill will on you enviro-nazi's). And yes i will put up my right wing values agianst your Hugo Chavez liberal dribble any time. And keep an eye on your 6 for a proud American U.S. Marine and his wife in thier 4X4 suburban on 36's with the German sheperd hanging his head out the window.
thank god liberals are not multiplying.


bigslick83bigslick83 - 9/21/2006 6:42:39 PM
+2 Boost
okay 1970
im gonna use the site you posted to cut and paste a few so called facts you supply:

In light of new evidence and taking into account the remaining uncertainties, most of the observed warming over the last 50 years (i.e., about half of the warming over the last 120 years) is likely7 to have been due to the increase in greenhouse gas concentrations.
The warming over the past 100 years is very unlikely7 to be due to internal variability alone and is unlikely7 to be entirely natural in origin.

--wow notice the use of the words likley and unlikely. dont sound to much like FACT, more like scientific theory, as in not proven, as in NOT A FACT

The best agreement between model simulations and observations over the last 140 years has been found when all the above anthropogenic and natural forcing factors are combined, as shown in Figure 4c. These results show that the forcings included are sufficient to explain the observed changes, but do not exclude the possibility that other forcings may also have contributed.

--wow this says the earth is perfectly capable of heating to the degree at which it has now all on its own. but does not exclude the fact that we MAY have some contribution to the warming. may is the key word there. as in possibility and not fact.

In the light of new evidence and taking into account the remaining uncertainties, most of the observed warming over the last 50 years is likely7 to have been due to the increase in greenhouse gas concentrations.

--okay here we have evidence that warming is due to an increas in greenhouse gas. okay thats all nice, but it doesnt say definatly who the source of the gases are from. notice the continuing use of the word "uncertanties" here i would also like to comment that all the charts and graphs that show "HUGE" variations in temperature in the last 140 years were all within +/- 1 degree celceus

7 In this Summary for Policymakers and in the Technical Summary, the following words have been used where appropriate to indicate judgmental estimates of confidence: virtually certain (greater than 99% chance that a result is true); very likely (90-99% chance); likely (66-90% chance); medium likelihood (33-66% chance); unlikely (10-33% chance); very unlikely (1-10% chance); exceptionally unlikely (less than 1% chance). The reader is referred to individual chapters for more details.

--this is the definition of the terminology used in this report. hard to belive that 30-60%chance or even 60-90% chance can be considerd fact. am i starting to beat a dead horse here? fact is its they dont know!!! and seeing how the earth has heated up and cooled in the past at much greater rates you would have to presume that we are not the cause untill proven otherwise. maybe its just my american "innocent until proven guilty" attitude.


TheMechanicTheMechanic - 9/21/2006 6:59:05 PM
+2 Boost
Heating and cooling has taken place since the earth was formed Liberal facts change as the wind blows. heating periods in history have been caused by the sun, solar flares distance variance, valcanos and Photoplankton in the ocean major source of O2 enviro-nazi's will always have the chicken litte sky is falling kook fringe surprising i havent seen toyomarc at midnight lighting Hummers on fire.
If you ask for my choice between an animal, plant, or fungus and a human life i will always choose a human life.


SteveSteve - 9/21/2006 10:50:56 PM
+2 Boost
Is anyone suing MacDonalds for the fattening of America?

Only in America, where the number of lawyers per capita is higher than any other nation on the planet.


BoLLeHBoLLeH - 9/22/2006 6:56:12 AM
0 Boost
It seems as if this one is full of political propaganda (left and right). Seriously, to say that global warming does not exist is absolute garbage. Are you ****ing stupid, Mechanic/BigSlick? Human induced or not, it exists. Clearly, the destruction of the world's largest rainforest and industrialization are man's work which will be correlated to the decrease in oxygen and water. That is not naturally occurring is it? Your political propaganda is blinding your monkey asses from seeing the truth.

Hah, proud American Marine--I love it everytime I hear it. What are you proud of? The power to ravage and the simplicity of the mind to believe whatever the cult leader tells you? It clearly shows it with your posts. Oh yes, plants bacteria fungus and animals are essential to the survival of mankind so you might want to wear some glasses.


BoLLeHBoLLeH - 9/22/2006 7:03:28 AM
0 Boost
BigSlick is the biggest idiot I've ever seen so no reason to respond to him.

ToyotaMarc, you are also crazy. Evolution will occur no matter if you like it or not. Humans will die off eventually due to nature's own depletion of O3. The thing you need to notice is that liberal scientists are giving you false hope while conservative ones are getting rich. You need to stop thinking "save the world" and say "let humanity live for another couple centuries" since it likely won't happen. Politicians are worse than global warming--even worse than them are the ones on this page licking every dropping the politicians excrete out of their mouths.


jasongoudiejasongoudie - 9/22/2006 8:53:23 AM
+2 Boost
So BoLLeH what are you saying that the earth was not made for man???? Us just being here is ruining it??? Your position is that the planet, plants and animals are more important than human life!!! Well I hope that someday when you are traveling one of those lovely terrorists (you know the pro environmental kind that blow up buildings and people) kidnaps you. You being the lovely person that you are could explain to them that you are on their side and that you love the earth and wish for any person willing to live and have a happy life to die like the capitalist pigs that they are. And I do hope that the Marines come to save you and one of those marines happens to be an autospies member and remembers the post you made and leaves you for dead. And after you are gone the earth will be much better without you!! Just remember you had your free speech and I am just having mine!!! Your a Pig!! And yes my brother is in Special Forces and has been to Iraq and has more understanding of the world than you could ever imagine. But you wouldn't understand because you are an enlightened, educated progressive and much better than any of us could ever hope to be and well my brother he is just a savage.Further comments are not worth my time.



bigslick83bigslick83 - 9/22/2006 10:34:47 AM
+2 Boost
okay who is an idiot?
the hundreds of scientest conducting the studies for the IICC?
me, for my ability to cut and paste?
or you who makes little to no sense?

all i did was copy statements from the site that 1970toy listed in his post to prove we cause global warming. and i read the site and confirmed taht it said GLOBAL WARMING IS HAPPINING. however it can not in any way prove that humans are to blame and that the earth would not heat up on its own naturaly. i like nature, but i like cars, job providing factories, and holiday inns too. maybe you should go back to school and improve on your 3rd grade reading level, as it seems impossible for you to communicate anything to any degree of acuracy


EnnNorakEnnNorak - 9/22/2006 10:46:25 AM
+2 Boost
This is the most frivolous lawsuit I have ever heard of. Auto makers who sold cars in California met every state and federal anti-pollution requirement for vehicles delivered in California. Federal legislation trumps state legislation so there is no basis for California to sue the feds and it is ridiculous to contemplate the possibility of California suing itself. Looks like political bullies picked on the poor defenseless auto industry again. If the state attorney general does not resign for abuse of power, California should be placed under federal trusteeship to protect the citizens of that state from anti-motorist political terrorists.


johannasjohannas - 9/22/2006 10:56:54 AM
0 Boost
This lawsuit is just part of the political game we have here. They did it just to raise the issue, and it worked! And if it only cost a few thousand $, to me it was worth it because it got the whole nation to think a little more about better cars.


Triniazda3Triniazda3 - 9/22/2006 11:04:40 AM
+2 Boost
Toyotamarc..........let me inform you even more

In my previous blog I stated several bits of information without providing hard core stats or backing it up with scientific papers etc. It is quite impossible to quote everything but please take my word for it. I am a geophysicist by profession and I have colleagues who are geologists and climatologists etc and the majority of the scientific community stuck to these three basic FACTS. (If you want just google search for a few minutes that you would find stuff that would take you weeks to process. I have a lot of core readings and satellite data but it is propierty info and thus I cannot quote them directly)

1. The Earth is warming up
2. Humans are not the cause
3. There is nothing we can do about it.

Toyomarc, scientists like my self have only begun to rely on data that began after the space and the digital age came into being (latter half of 20th century). People are saying that the Earh has warmed by 0.5 C over the last one hundred years. Did you know that the percentage error on the best sensors from satellites is over 1.0 C and ground stations are giving errors greater than 2.0 C due to reflective heat from expaned urban areas? The point I am trying to make is that we cannot conclusively measure any recorded rise in temp in our planet over 100 years.

We have a multinational station in Antarctica and US scientists have collected numerous ice cores (several hundred feet in length) which show the ratio of certain Oxygen molecules and other gases over a period over thousands and thousands of years. In fact so accurate is the data that we have tied it with the birth and death of many ice-ages. At one time the avg temp of the Earth was over 50.0 C or over 140.0 F. My point - the Earth has gone through a very precise cycle of rise and fall of temp most likely by orbital changes around our sun

The ozone layer is very dynamic and no instrument by man can measure how much or how little of it. Months prior to the St. Helena eruption in 1980 scientists at that time were measureing all sorts of things and let me tell you.......millions of cubic yards of material and trillions of cubic feet of poisonous gas (including greenhouse gases like carbon monoxide) escaped.

Did you know that water vapor is even more potent that carbon monoxide as a greenhouse gas? How much do you think we have of that? The Earth is violent in nature and it damages and repairs itself somehow like if it were alive.

Our cars are not damaging to nature. Even if temps soar another 10 degrees in our lifetime let me tell you now that no technology.......not even in fantasy can reverse that effect.

Adapt and say Amen


SteveLSteveL - 9/22/2006 1:26:32 PM
+2 Boost
Peoples,
It did not say it in this article but the Sierra Club is the one that actually is behind this suit. This is a fact if you read the public record. California is in turn backing them up. This is what I wrote to that left wing environments nut house:

Dear Sierra Club,
I just heard about the suit you filed against the Auto Makers and I have to tell you that, this is one of the most stupid things I have ever heard of. This just shows me how ignorant you all really are.
So you are going to take all your members’ money and waist it on this frivolous lawsuit. That’s unbelievable. Your so called environmentally group is a joke and you have no clue how to help the environment. Instead you complain about everything and use junk science to back up your theories.
If you want fewer emissions in California than stop driving, try to get mass transit set up. Plant way more trees. Create more wetlands.
You are one of the biggest threats to the environment. I seriously hope that everybody stops giving you money and you go out of business.
Holly crap I still can’t believe how stupid you people are!

That was my pissed off opinion. Now I will tell you my calmed opinion. You probably could care less about it but I am going to give it to you anyways.
You know very well that this suit will go nowhere but I do understand why you are doing it which is to raise awareness. This is the wrong way to do this. The public is not as stupid as you think and yes I do know for a fact that you don’t think the public is that smart.
You need to take all that money you have and press the Government and the public into changes. Make the news do stories on what mass transit will do and educate people on the huge benefits of having more trees, bushes and wetlands. Raise money for each of these specific issues.
This is how you make change unless you don’t really want to and all you really are is in it for the money. It’s up to you. Try for real change or keep bitching until your old and you die.

The Sierra Club did actually write me back and they said “We do have initiatives to help trees and wetlands” They did not mention the lawsuit.
I just hope everybody stops giving them any money.



TheMechanicTheMechanic - 9/22/2006 2:00:26 PM
+1 Boost
A big +1 Triniazda3
Great to think you have the opinion that suing car manufactures is just “full of political propaganda (left and right) now look and see who is the ignorant one Bolle. Climate changes will happen no one can change these. To make it simple for your “****ing stupid” brain as layers of ice form at the poles how do you think it got there suddenly formed out of thin air? Nope moisture and the cooling effects of climate change these layers are recordable but you as a typical anti-American want to blame America first. You I am sure think we have less forest now then ever in history but you would be wrong it is just the opposite due to most fires caused from lightning strikes burning 100k of acres of forest but now we have the capability to put those fires out before they decimate our forests. In every case it is the American technology that solves the problems of the world. I am sure you would love to turn the U.S. over to the blue hats of the U.N. and let them pilfer America like they did with the food for oil scandal but America is just to smart to have your lazy I don’t care attitude. cars and trucks are cleaner now than ever in history. You may want to turn everyone’s choice over to Kalifornia I will not. And your "let humanity live for another couple centuries" since it likely won't happen. Is completely idiotic you are one of those people with the world is ending syndrome fatalists. Kinda funny actually and to quote a comedian “here’s your sign” and as to believing a cult leader you are obviously brain dead and cant realize that the masses of intelligent people have leaders that are of like mind rather than you and your lemmings jumping over the cliff. So are you a scientologist or just Hale bopp who missed the mothership? Oh and I will still be here protecting you right to speak mindless dribble kind of good to keep a few people like you around for entertainment and display.


"Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!" —Patrick Henry



Triniazda3Triniazda3 - 9/22/2006 4:35:52 PM
+2 Boost
1995e34 -
Like I said in my last blog........I am a petroleum exploration geophysicist by profession. Yes, people like me help explore new deposits of oil and natural gas.

To other readers -
Some interesting facts......I am so sure about this.....you can actually put my head on a block. In my area of work you get to laise with pretty much everyone else from other companies......including those in other countries. Every year we do an up to date audit on reserves etc and given present rates of consumption for oil, we can support it for at least another quarter of a century.

Now for the other part - not wanting to put my head on a block this time, but I would sure bet everything I have (money, house and car)......we have enough oil to last even up to 2050.

The best part of it is..............we are discovering (esp in third world countries) more oil fields.....so we are proving up all the time.

Its so funny but in 1995 when the price of oil was less than US$20.00 and we used to pay less than a dollar for premium 95 in the States (remember those good old days folks?).......now in 2006 we have more oil added to our reserve base yet the price has shot up!

Politics and more politics. Washed up, rejected and once unemployed science-degreed people are finding wonderful desk jobs in gov agencies, univ labs and other places. They sit behind their Dells and crunch numbers in Excel and print graphs.....graphs that are always statisically skewded. They get data from God knows where.......at least not where I get mine.....and in the conclusion part of their report they write a few paragraphs that always equates to doom and we are in trouble. Then comes the really fun part.....they seek money from corps and govs through their politicans to fix a problem they "created" on a graph. I am sick of that garbage. CNN should be blamed as well. Exxon Valdez spilled oil that killed hundreds of wildlife on Alaskan beaches (a few miles).....that was sad.....MAN was to blame

Mount St. Helena vaporized millions of wildlife and thousands of acres of precious trees. Property damage in the million$ and some people disappeared......EARTH was to blame.....so what to do?

What has happened and continues to happen is a mathematical war. Anyone or any group of people who says that the ozone layer has diminished by x percent and there is a hole over the ice caps..should be put in jail. Why is it that America has most of the world's idiots? My friends in other parts of the world get a "belly full" of laughs when we go about spreading our enviro doctrine.

Ask this question to the average American : "If all the ice in the Arctic circle melted, would sea level rise, fall or remain constant?" Guess what.....most would say fall. Simple elementary question. Now ask them if they went to see Shrek two and they bought the biggest bag of popcorn and a jug filled with coke and ice......if the ice metled, would the coke spill out? They would reply....."of course not".


Triniazda3Triniazda3 - 9/22/2006 4:41:29 PM
+2 Boost
Sorry.....typo.....but the average person would have said rise instead of fall....... :)


Triniazda3Triniazda3 - 9/22/2006 4:55:35 PM
+2 Boost
False Global Warming.........everyone who does not believe copy and paste these up and read.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/01/14/wglob14.xml

http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=17190

and I love this one.......
http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=8177

And my all time favorite......spread this around Mechanic
http://www.kn4lf.com/globalwarminglie.htm





RupertRupert - 9/22/2006 4:57:16 PM
+2 Boost
triniazda, i'm sure you don't need me to tell you this, but yes, ice takes up more space than water. it is the only solid thant has that property over the liquid equivalent (ie liquid butter takes up more space than hard butter).
regards to the ice melting thing, hasn't it been melting since the last ice age? and sea levels (apprently) haven't been rising, land masses are sinking, due to the ice that used to be pressing on the tops of the continents (like canada and scotland) isn't there, so the land masses are tipping back down in the south (like on the south coast of britan), like a lever, once the weight at one end goes, it falls on the other end.
and IMO, i think it's pretty weird that the top and bottom of the planet is covered in ice, and the centre desert. it makes more sense to have a more constant temperature all round, doesn't it?


TheMechanicTheMechanic - 9/22/2006 7:07:27 PM
+1 Boost
As ice becomes a solid the molecules will stop moving at come to rest at its farthest distance possible under normal circumstances. Without going into the science if you fill a 2 liter soda bottle filled with water put the cap back on and put it into a freezer it would burst or leave the cap on and it would overflow.


MadDogMadDog - 9/23/2006 12:25:36 PM
0 Boost
Some of the folks commenting on this blog really need to get out and live a little, actually a whole lot more ... no wonder the rest of the world belly laughs at Americans ... need to chill folks .. its not worth having a coronary and spewing forth your personal vitriole over a stupid California lawsuit :-)


johannasjohannas - 9/23/2006 2:27:53 PM
+2 Boost
MadDog,
You're right. It's saturday, and I'm going to the park.


TheMechanicTheMechanic - 9/24/2006 8:07:32 PM
+1 Boost
MadDog i want to get out and live a litte and i want my children to get out and live a little and their children. that is the point many are trying to make. if you dont get involved your choices will be made for you and the only place you will be able to go is by bus, tram, or train you wont be able to go to the mountains or down to the see. you wont be able to hunt or fish. you wont be able to eat what you want etc etc. i wont have a coronary but i wont sit by and let my Constitution and yours be eroded by social eletists who would rather see you in chains than be the best you can be.


Copyright 2026 AutoSpies.com, LLC