The new Lexus LS-Mixed results?

"but in terms of styling, the new LS is unlikely to attract new buyers and especially any converts from formidable prestige brands such as Mercedes-Benz and BMW."

this is the same thing most of the people say when a new LEXUS comes OUT,but then the whole story changes.

NEW LS is one of the best and finest designed car.

JUGNU

The former head of Lexus North America said that there will always be people who won't buy a Lexus and that "that is fine."

As good as Lexus cars become, some people will never consider them. I think that is great. I sure as hell wouldn't want everyone driving the same thing.

You can say that you will only buy a BMW or Mercedes, but you can't deny that Lexus excels at what it does.

No matter how good the new LS is, Lexus better fix the 207ft 70mph-0 stopping distance problem. It is as bad as a large SUV. And, the Auto Paking feature should be included in the "entertainment package" if there is even one offered.

it really isn't a good looking car, look at that picture. The comfort and luxury of it is probably unsurpassed, but the styling is bland at best.

Someone please tell me something technologically advanced on this car.

U all praise it for it advanced technology but I havent yet heard of a single new gadged.

"the LS 460 is uninspired and laden with pointless whiz-bang gizmos that left us wondering if the folks at Lexus are out of touch."

with the parking thing "The spot has to be 6 ½ feet longer than the vehicle you're trying to put in there. So you have to be the judge of will it fit or not."

6 1/2 feet! my goldfish could do that.

long wheelbase makes more sense, but it is still an american fleet car. not a euro one, fuel economy is too bad as are resale values.

the article seemed fair.

LS still looks too bland....regardless of quality, gadgets, whatever.

That was a seriously awful article, filled with bias and nothing to back up the author's claim. He just doesnt like the car, and he thinks no one, other than current owners, will either. As others have pointed out, this criticism is always laid on Lexus, and rarely comes true.

Some specific faults with the article...

"The spot has to be 6 ½ feet longer than the vehicle you're trying to put in there. So you have to be the judge of will it fit or not."
You tell me the last time you parked a $70,000 full sized luxury vehicle with less than three feet in the front and back. There was a video of the parking posted yesterday, and the space between the two vehicles was exactly what you would expect to need when parking this vehicle. Furthermore, the car stopped once it had made its park, and the driver was merely left to drive forward to choose how much fore and aft space he needs.

"But the reason that none of this is remarkable for 2007 is because one could essentially say the same for the LS from the prior year. Which leaves one to ask, what is the point of the 2007 LS 460 overhaul?"

This car is superior to its predecessor in every metric, and anyone with any unbiased brain can tell you that.

If you dont like , you dont like it. But that was just sloppy jounalism at best, outright lies and pandering to German cars at worst.

First of all, this article on izoom.com was written by someone who sounds obviously biased towards Lexus. She(or he) is knocking the newly designed LS left and right. If you look closely, the writer speaks negatively about Lexus the whole time except in ONE paragraph. How's that for bias? Second, all of this debate at the current time on the new Lexus LS is pointless because no one except car magazine reviewers has actually driven it yet. One car magazine will give it good reviews, while Car and Driver magazine(who hates Lexus) gives it low reviews. The bottom line is us consumers can't go by some brake distance numbers or personal opinions given in many car magazines to form our opinion of the car. Once the car actually comes out, we need to see it in person, feel it's presence, sit in the car, appreciate the craftsmanship, listen to the high end sound system, and most of all drive the car. Only then can we make a true opinion of the car.
And as far as the comment, "but in terms of styling, the new LS is unlikely to attract new buyers and especially any converts from formidable prestige brands such as Mercedes-Benz and BMW."
That's with anything you buy, not just Benz and BMW. People who are into Nissans will not convert to Honda necessarily. This guy who wrote this article is writing with the notion that Lexus wants to convert lots of Benz and BMW customers to Lexus. There will always be people who won't buy Lexus, JUST AS there will always be people who will never buy a Benz or BMW.
The guy who wrote this article is clueless. The original LS(which came out in 1989 at a time when people couldn't even comprehend the notion of a Japanese luxury car) beat out BMW and Benz at a time when they were king to become the #1 luxury US import in a very short time. No small feat in any way. It still is the #1 US luxury import.
To take it one step further, I just talked to my Lexus guy yesterday and he told me all the new LS 460 models allocated for the dealership are all already RESERVED by customers. So that equates to unlikely to attract new buyers?? You can bet that probably a number of these people were former Benz/BMW owners who were frustrated by the reliabilty and poor customer service they received at their respective German dealerships.

When Mercedes and BMW were the #1 luxury imports, it was because people had taste.

Now that Lexus has been #1 for as long as we can remember, it's because people have no taste.

Makes perfect sense.

VINI VIDI VICI !

except for the fact that no one would believe either would build something that bland.

Lets see what the sales show, say maybe 6 months from now. It is us the consumers who benefit from competition.

Will, I agree with you 100%. its selective perception these German fanboys are suffering from. How can you judge something you havent experienced before, I know looks are subjective but these guys are just plain ignorant.

Anyway, looks lie upon the eyes of the beer holder I am not surprised some of these guys actually find the 5 and 7 series beautiful, I personally think they look horrible! But like I said looks are indeed subjective.

"...the new LS is unlikely to attract new buyers and especially any converts from formidable prestige brands such as Mercedes-Benz and BMW."
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Unlikely to attract new buyers my foot! Look at the competition the LS has. You have the poorly designed, overly busy S-Class, and the long, awkward looking 7-Series. Lexus pretty much owns this segment.

lexusis350-

Except the fabulous A8. The A8 beats it in every respect.

And the S-Class beats them both; it's undeniable. The S550 is perhaps the world's most desirable sedan.

What horrible world do you live in? And the A8 is too long, and has horrible designs near the back of the car, and it has horrible rims. But, unlike everyone else, I do like Audi's oversized grille.

Slap a BMW or Mercedes badge on it and it would be praised up and down as the greatest car in the world.
----------------------------------------------------- Will

Compeletely agree!

Slap a BMW or Mercedes badge on it and it would be praised up and down as the greatest car in the world.
----------------------------------------------------- Will

Compeletely agree!

couldn't believe my eyes either when I first saw the new S-Class. Let's just say that it reminded me of a very popular, well-known Japanese family sedan in the $25K segment. ;)
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The new S Class is a nice looking car. But it's not specialy beautiful. Not more that an AUDI or the new LS!

couldn't believe my eyes either when I first saw the new S-Class. Let's just say that it reminded me of a very popular, well-known Japanese family sedan in the $25K segment. ;)
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The new S Class is a nice looking car. But it's not specialy beautiful. Not more that an AUDI or the new LS!

Will, That is so true A4=Jetta,A3=Golf,Q7=Toureg and A8=Phaeton A6 not sure! please help!

car and driver

There is indeed a problem with LEXUS and it's because of it's succes!Some of us try to lower the image of this brand and denie the quality and security and envronmental orientation of this Cars! Telling that it's ûglier that MB S class or specialy BMW 7 is very subjectif. Even in this forum some of us like and some doesn't like it. I switzerland no we can see more and more the new IS and RX on the road. Rarely the GS! The GS450h is realy sucesful in Switzerland and as it continues we will see that also more and more on the road. Yesterday i'say in Revue Automobil a Suissse German car magazine that teh sales devlopment of LEXUS comparing 2005 is 146% and listen: The higest sales development in the country. I'm not a fanatic of any brand i just love great cars and i was lucky to have possibility to test few cars. And LEXUS is an excellent brand as much as MB, BMW and AUDI! So why to denie that? Just because it's not european or amerîcan and it's japaneese!!?

The new LS is a nice car, but it doesn't appeal to me. In this segment, I'd take the S-Class first followed by the Audi A8 and Jaguar XJ.

Whether you're a BMW, Mercedes, or Audi fan, you must admit that Lexus made a huge statement with the New LS 460. The car gets 380+ hp, gets great gas mileage, has an abundance of standard technology and equipment, looks strikingly similar to the 7series BMW (which many of you have praised), yet the LS is actually an improvement of that design, and will costs 15 to 25K less than its top competitors. How can you not admit that the LS is a force to be reckoned with?

Lets be truthful, the only advantage that Mercedes and BMW have over Lexus is a history and the fact that they are less attainable b/c of their increased costs over Lexus. There's only so much more time that Mercedes can survive on its history and past prestige to remain the leader. Hence the new S550 is a disappointment in the design category. BMW I think is should be in a category of its own. They don't focus solely on luxury, but performance as well. Infiniti would be there with them. I don't follow Audi closely. My guess is that they would make that category as well.

To end my ramblings, I agree with Will. "Slap a BMW or Mercedes badge on the LS, and the LS would be being praised."

Will-

"And as far as the A8, it's great, but the Phaeton undercuts it in the long-run. By alot, actually!"

Not exactly. A8 is about eight hundred pounds lighter (yes, you read that right), has a much more logically laid-out interior and slightly better materials, a more distinguished style about it (though I think the Phaeton is cool), and is much faster due to its 15hp advantage and lighter weight. It's also only $1.5K more base, and more reliable to boot.

I'm interested to see the new LS in person, though the wife just recently vowed that she will 100% not buy another Lexus. She said that she's had a wonderful experience with hers, but everyone has one. She needs something different!

Desirable e.g. German cars such as BMW or MB does not necesarily mean the best. That is something the German car fans keep mixing up.. when they compare with Lexus

S4cabriofox-
I think that of all of the German cars, Audi/Volkswagen is the worst make. Face it, Volkswagen isn't particularily known for their high quality/reliablity ratings and they've passed that trait on to Audi. This is one of the few times you'd hear me say this but, I'd take a Mercedes-Benz over an Audi, purley over the fact that Audi is made by Volkswagen.

"As referenced in a July 10th article from BusinessWeek, a recent quality report for the German market shows Audi made big gains in vehicle quality and customer service, and scored high in vehicle appeal. BusinessWeek mentions "Audi's quality ranking alone jumped 21 points in Germany from 2005, while the industry as a whole improved by only 6 points." The report is based solely on the opinions of current car owners. But when Germans are asked to vote on which brand they like the most regardless of what they drive now, Audi fared even better. BusinessWeek adds "In the 2006 reader survey by German magazine Auto Motor & Sport, Audi swept the rankings, overtaking both BMW and Mercedes for best car in the compact (A3), executive sedan (A6), and luxury sedan (A8) categories."

Audi/VW only suffers these so-called poor reliability ratings in the US. Interesting. Also interesting that, in Europe, Toyota isn't even perceived by consumers to have as much quality as a VW, Audi, or even BMW.

Americans (more specifically gullible Toyota fans) take unscientific, dubious surveys like JD Powers & Associates (which don't even give an adequate definition of what a problem is) and claim them as fact.

So, lexusis350, I guess you'd also choose a MB over a Lamborghini and Bentley, since those are also made by VW. Continue to be a disillusioned while driving around in your $40k Toyota while we all laugh.

As referenced in a July 10th article from BusinessWeek, a recent quality report for the German market shows Audi made big gains in vehicle quality and customer service, and scored high in vehicle appeal. BusinessWeek mentions "Audi's quality ranking alone jumped 21 points in Germany from 2005, while the industry as a whole improved by only 6 points." The report is based solely on the opinions of current car owners. But when Germans are asked to vote on which brand they like the most regardless of what they drive now, Audi fared even better. BusinessWeek adds "In the 2006 reader survey by German magazine Auto Motor & Sport, Audi swept the rankings, overtaking both BMW and Mercedes for best car in the compact (A3), executive sedan (A6), and luxury sedan (A8) categories."

audi could make such a big jump because it was so LOW to begin with! LOL!
what can you expect of gussied-up volkswagens with similar quality?

This car will be successful--in the US. It undercuts the competition in price and offers many of the same features--I liken it to a cubic zirconia; a nicely done imitation. Americans have proven themselves to be fond of such imitation.

Will - 9/27/2006 4:50:24 PM+2 Boost
Slap a BMW or Mercedes badge on it and it would be praised up and down as the greatest car in the world.
carfan3 - 9/27/2006 4:55:24 PM0 Boost
except for the fact that no one would believe either would build something that bland.


and the fact that neither can build a car that RELIABLE.

IMO, BMW/Mercedes fans will stick to their S-class/7-series. Sure the new LS has much improved their flag-ship car but prestige still belongs to the Big III in Germany.

I won't deny the LS looks good. It looks a lot more sleak and very much still an old man's car. Not that it mean it's a bad car but for the loyal Lexus LS consumers whom are more elderly, they will enjoy an LS more than ever! More luxury and more high end features..

However, i dont know how this Maybach wannabee with hold in the market. I dislike their idea of trying to make their LS into a "limo" type car. Only the loyal Lexus LS buyers will enjoy this. The pro-euro people will stick with the A8, S, 7, XJ, etc.

No doubt that it is a stunning car though. It looks luxurious but I guess by brand recognition typically the BMW and Mercedes will be noticed before the Lexus.

Will
"Slap a BMW or Mercedes badge on it and it would be praised up and down as the greatest car in the world."

Agree with u compleltly.

JUGNU

I cant agree with you more. If you remember when the Lotus Elise came out it was and is still being given rave reivews.
Guess what??? It has a Toyota Celica 1.8litre engine and transmission. And it is sold for over $40K.

Had it been badged a Toyata these so called car critique would have given it the worst review.

To come back to the point as you metioned a three point star or a BMW logo on a Lexus and the reveiw would have been different.

I think what is bugging these European Luxury car fans is the fact that the Japanese is way ahead of them when it comes to luxury cars.

read the new string about more details on the LS 600h L. any critiques about styling aside, the engineering puts the germans to shame.

comments about it's blandness are met with "well, it's more reliable..blah, blah, blah". Hypothetically, what happens if Lexus loses it's "quality" luster? what does it have then? and...don't say it can't happen because it can. some examples are JDP VDS...not much separates the top 5 and JDP IQS...not much separates the top 20.

"Slap a BMW or Mercedes badge on it and it would be praised up and down as the greatest car in the world."

btw....slap a Hyundai, Chery, Geely logo on it, no one would even notice.

AUDIMAN4-
"So, lexusis350, I guess you'd also choose a MB over a Lamborghini and Bentley, since those are also made by VW. Continue to be a disillusioned while driving around in your $40k Toyota while we all laugh."
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I would actually choose an MB over a Lamborghini and a Bentley. Why? Because of the Volkswagen factor. And for your information: there are some Toyotas that actually are $40k+ because they actually put quality into their vehicles. I can't say the same for Volkswagen.

ApexAlex-
"Slap a BMW or Mercedes badge on it and it would be praised up and down as the greatest car in the world.
carfan3 - 9/27/2006 4:55:24 PM0 Boost
except for the fact that no one would believe either would build something that bland."
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Have you seen the MB C-Class. Talk about your bland styling.

AUDIMAN4, have you heard of the TOP GEAR SURVEY? Lexus and Toyota ranked the highest for reliability and for the people enjoying their cars. Not perceived as quality? You are smoking something.

ML scored the lowest.

two quick things- I don't believe the rise or fall of this car rests on the desireability parking system, and the styling, while not the least bit radical, is significantly better that the outgoing LS. Lexus is a very conservative car company which takse careful measured steps but, I assure you, they know exactly what they are doing every step of the way.

I saw a black S550 today with some nice AMG wheels on it (from the CLS55 AMG). I was drawn to the car. Stunning, simply stunning.

Anyone who thinks the S-Class is bland should get their eyes checked. I thought it was butt-ugly when it first came out, but the design has grown on me. Gorgeous.

Back on topic. I thought I saw an LS today, but it was probably an ES. *DEVIL SMILEY*

When I first saw the new S-Class, I also thought it was butt-ugly. Now I think it is a gorgeous and classicly beautiful car.

When I first saw the new S-Class, I also thought it was butt-ugly. Now I think it is a gorgeous and classicly beautiful car.

Which I guess explains why there have been so many Toyota recalls lately. Toyota has had more recalls than VW in the last several months.

I guess you haven't heard of the Top Gear Survey. It is the largest European car owners' satisfaction survey. Lexus scored the best. You will find in many European car reviews that they believe Lexus has the best build quality and reliability, often refering to Lexus quality as being able to withstand world war 3/nuclear bombs (what Fifth Gear said about the IS 250... or was that 220d... either way..). Only you think that Europeans don't perceive Lexus as quality, and you aren't even European probably...

Only the sales will tell the real story most of us here are just armchair critics. I personally think Lexus have done their homework well.

VINI VIDI VICI ! thats Lexus and it took them 17 years to revolutionise the luxury market in the biggest car market in the world, I am wondering about the next ten to come. It will be dominated by generation x's who wont care about heritage.

An interesting fact I came across is that Toyota's value dwarfs that of the top five vehichle makers combined by about $150 Billion. Meaning they have a $150 Billion more than all of them combined. hmmmmm! Thats thought provoking!

that HUGE capitalization value represents the tremendous confidence the investor community has in the company. which includes small shareholders (like myself).

i have not directly supported toyota with a new vehicle purchase since 1993. i have, on the other hand, bought 2 used toyotas since. (and a new ford in 2000; NO comparison in build quality and durability. still.)

i would imagine my experience parallels that of thousands of other car owners. we don't buy NEW toyotas (often), but we appreciate the quality and reliability of the product, even aged ones. if/WHEN we buy a new car or truck, it's a NO BRAINER to go to a toyota store.

the steady increase in sales volume is reflecting the thousands like me who are now buying NEW cars and choosing toyota/lexus. and/or their friends and relatives acting on good advice. and/or those doing their own research.

and of course, above all, toyota and lexus ARE offering the finest automotive products today.

I guess it's ok to follow BMW's styling influence in certain areas but ripping off the Hoffmeister kink is just weak, weak, weak. The only good styling idea Lexus has ever come up with themselves (at least I think they did) is the xenon headlamps with yellow foglights, which they don't even use anymore.

the Hoffmeister kink is NOT original with bmw.

you can see it on early 1950s Chevys! and a whole slew of other cars.

When I first saw the latest s class i thought it was butt ugly... I still do.

Will's right. The S-Class has no significant looks to it. I will admit though, the S-Class isn't as ugly as I thought when it first came out. However, I'm still not attracted to it. I saw one and thought it was a Nissan Maxima. Honesty I did.

I saw the new Lexus LS and I thought it was a facelifted version of the VW Phaeton. ;)

I don't think the new LS is out yet.

I still don't see how someone can mistaken an S-class for a Maxima lol. Get a new pair of prescriptions.

I don't wear glasses or contacts, and I don't need them either. But they do look oddly similar. And the Maxima was out before the S-Class so Mercedes designed the S-Class after a Maxima.

i've said repeatedly, the clean integration of a fastback roof to bumper line, with the lower body, was first seen on a MAXIMA of a few generations back.

this elegant design element has since been emulated by a whole slew of cars, from civics to acuras, from corollas to lexi.

even bmw has modified the original ugly bangle butt to more closely replicate this look.

the S class uses this design element too, to make an otherwise awkwardly large 'fastback' sedan look decent.

S550 looks ok from the front, bad everywhere else. The S AMG's look good from the front, bad everywhere else. Too many humps, bumps, creases and what not. Interior, aside from turning the entire instrument cluster into a screen which is different, is a complete and blatant rip off of the 7-series. They even copied iDrive and through a miracle of engineering somehow managed to make it even harder to use.

I think the S class is beautiful- especially on the HBO show Entourage. It's a nice design direction for Benz.

"The S-Class is nothing special, ESPECIALLY in the exterior looks department."

Don't you also mean the interior which is basically a 7 Series with a Mercedes emblem on the steering wheel?

^^ The above was Will's quote

I haven't seen the LS460 on the road yet and I'm already tired of looking at it in photos with it's cliched lines.

I'll be buying the Mercedes S Class in 2007.

And regretting your purchase for the rest of your days owning it.

If Will is for something, how can you be against it?

why is going for a german car considered "get lost in the flock"? what's wrong with buying a german car? all personal preference.

""Individuals" who don't want...."
"takes guts to make a statement...."
you actually believe that crock of bull? keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better about what you purchased.

lexusis350,
why would you regret owning an s class?

Because it's not the best value for your dollar. If you're going to pay premium, you want to check the history and make sure that the company has a clean record and the highest possible ratings in all categories as possible.

best value...
what if i don't care about value? often buying a car is a fairly emotional purchase and even if the LS is the better value, more reliable etc car, i still want an s class or a8 more.

carfan, i agree with you? why are some people so desperate to show their induviduality, we're all induviduals, yet some people go really far to show it.
and is anyone going to say "oh look at him, he drives a bmw/audi/m-b, he's so unimaginative."
based on the corolla's sales records, that is an unimaginative.

talking about the "slap a different badge" thing, some one made reference to the lotus elise. top gear magazine happen to quite like the mr2 and believe it is an underated car, it uses the same engine and tranny as the lotus.
but the thing is, would you pay 80000 dollars for a toyota? the right badge does come into it, we're all consumers and buy certain things to impress, whether it be clothes, cars, gadgets etc.
i feel no need to buy an ipod, but i don't want a lexus and aren't a clothes brand fanatic. thats just my priorities. of course some people love ipods, the latest phones, gucci/versace/D&G etc, but are perfectly happy in their vw/toyota/renault whatever, as long as its the right colour. remember, most people don't like cars because of engineering, they like them because of their looks and shinyness.
thats how some of my friends judge how good a car is, a reason why striking designs stick in the mind, like the range rover, ferraris, astons, and the CLS m-b.
the lexus isn't quite striking enough, its good looking, no doubt, but most cars nowadays are good looking, and its not enough. come on lexus, sweep those headlights, drag out the tail lights, give it eyebrows and two tone paint!

If you don't care about value then buy the dang thing. I don't care, it's your money, not mine. I'm just saying, if it was me, I would choose the better car.

If you do buy the Sclass, beautiful as it may be, just be sure you get rid of it before the warranty expires.

Because if you don't, it will break down the day after the warranty expires.

Lexusis 350
You are dead on. My BMW broke the spider gear in the rear end 100 miles out of warranty.When it was in warranty there was not a month that it was not in the shop. When it cracked it's head at 12K miles that was it. I am now, and have been a Lexus owner (more than one) since 1991. Just ordered a LS 460. I don't have to visit the dealer every month except to get the car washed and enjoy their premium coffee etc. What a difference.

Congratulations on the new LS. I have a 2004 LS and can't decide if I should get a new on or not. I too enjoy the dealer visits (which is bad because there are so few).