RENDERED SPECULATION: IF This Is The FIRST Look At The All-New Lexus LS, Is It A STUD or DUD?

I have been to Japan several times - ANd I have not seen ANY cows on the roads
anywhere. I wonder WHERE the are - that Lexus feels they need to put a cow catcher on the front of their cars?

Jaguar is about the only company that has a grille that looks good and works for all models including the F-Pace. The shape doesn't change radically based on car size or proportions. Lexus IMO have created the worst grille deigns since the Beak scandal over at Acura. There is nothing appealing about a face like that and no longevity whatsoever .

yeah...they said that about the Audi grille when it first appeared. IMO, the Lexus grille is the best of all cars. AND the swoosh daytime led lights..you know its a Lexus when its approaching from behind.

This is another dud from Lexus unfortunately. Their grille ruins the entire design. It's completely hideous.

You know who is going to enjoy this new design from Lexus...Genesis. Their new G90 sedan offers better looks with similar features at a much better price point.

The Genesis G90 is a good looking product, but I doubt it will be as competitive. In regards to the U.S. market, the redesigned LS is no longer going to be direct competition to the G90 like is the case now with the archaic LS460/L and the on life support LS600hL.

Outside of the Mercedes-Maybach and Mercedes-AMG lines, the 2018 LS has truly been designed to go head to head with the S550 in the form of the LS500, if not temporarily eclipse it until the revolutionary 2021 S-Class is introduced. At this point, only subjective items like exterior styling, will be an issue. If the W222 facelift is substantial upgrade over the current model, it may do well to maintain its well deserved throne.

Lexus will never attempt to compete with the S600 and S65, so I have not included that. An S63 competing LS-F has yet to be confirmed, but you'd be foolish they've kept the current model 10-11 years to merely warm it over. This new LS has some serious money behind it from Toyota and justified the business case for LC coupe.

At this even BMW's G12, might suffer in regards to both the LS300tL and LS500L, while even if the D5 A8 is excellent, it has never been a serious contender nor surpassed the nearly dead current LS in sales. I'm a Hyundai fan, but only see the G90 selling on the value proposition and not on actual competitive content post-LS redesign. Right now , the G90 will do very well against Lexus.

At the end of the day, your complaints on styling are merely opinion, not fact. I say this as someone that has worked on the next XJ and as a member of both the British and American motoring industries. The Spindle Grille works just fine on this car.

Okay, it seems auto-correct is screwing up my posts. Please forgive my unintended typos.

Carmaker-It's obvious you are upset that so many people do not like Lexus' styling direction. It's actually worse than when Acura introduced the beak back in 2009. Until Lexus tones down their grille or comes up with a new design, you should prepare yourself for more complaints about Lexus' design for years to come.

If that's the best they can do--a car nearly indistinguishable from the current outdated car--they are in deep caca.

As the source of this very photo, who bought the latest Mag X issue (with great difficulty) and uploaded it to another website, I do not fully endorse this rendering anymore. There are design cues missing from this rendering, that are on the production car's design (frozen in 2014) and the previewing LF-FC concept.

Besides that, I figure there is only so much they can do with the Spindle Grille and figure they may risk running out of ideas like BMW does at times with the kidney grilles.

Does "caca" mean "money" in Japanese because Lexus seems to be rolling in a lot of those as well. I definitely see a lot of people with bad taste in ugly grills because I see an awful of these hideous things on the road. Now Lincoln and TVR, those two make beautiful cars that don't roll in anything. But what do I know, I don't have a stake in any auto dealership.

I'm sending you knee pads for your Lexus worship.

If you didn't like the spindle grill, you will hate this. So give it a rest. It's working for Lexus on their sales and it's stand out. You either hate it or love it. Let's see what's the interior look like and the powertrain. I think Lexus will try to up stage the S-Class in the interior. I don't have too much hope on the powertrain.

I think the actual car will look a little better than this, especially that this somewhat two-dimensional and not entirely accurate. The LF-FC is the LS and this rendering that I posted is somewhat close to that. I believe there are some design cues missing, especially the L-shaped character line that trails the front lighting.

As for the interior, yes that is one area they can succeed in, that is if they are serious and did not approve an interior design that contained some of the gaffes later shown in the LF-FC Concept interior, such as the ugly steering wheel and its binnacle.

A softer version of that interior might do a better job, than some of the overdone elements of the LF-FC. Power train wise, Lexus better hope that the M278 V8 replacing M176 in the W222 S-Class facelift is not a significant upgrade, as it will ensure the 2UR-GSE V8 of the LS500 will fall terribly short.

I cannot imagine the Lexus V8 even doing better than the current S550/500 in fuel economy, being a 5.0 as opposed to a 4.7 litre twin-turbo V8 and now a 4.0L V8.

A new 400 horsepower 3.0 twin-turbo V6, will make its debut in the redesigned LS as the LS300t. The engine has only been confirmed for the LS and nothing else. The M256 inline-6 will make things even more difficult.

The evolution of the grille is the only thing I like on new Lexus designs. Everything else, take away the grille, is either audaciously tacky or ridiculously generic. If this came to fruition in production, then Lexus will be making the same mistakes it's always made, and the same mistake BMW made with the 7 Series. You can ramble on about their sales numbers, but those numbers are bolstered by the value-driven, conservative ES, and the value-driven RX. The IS, GS, LS, and GX cannot match up against their BMW or Mercedes counterparts in sales, by a long shot. Even the NX isn't winning its segment.

Until the financial crash of 2008, the ugly Camry-esque LS facelift of late 2009 (MY2010), and recall crisis of 2010, the LS dominated this class in sales in North America.

It wasn't until when both Lexus and Mercedes issued facelifts for their 2010 model year flagships in 2009, that the LS reign started to dwindle, conceding the sales crown to S-Class by the end of the 2010 calendar year. The truth is, Lexus issued a regressive cost-cutting facelift for the 2010 model year LS and Mercedes-Benz corrected all the weaknesses of the W221.

The consumers took notice and have never looked back, especially when BMW introduced the bargain 740i in late 2010 and when Audi and Jaguar redesigned their flagships for MY2011. Not mention, the MY2011 Hyundai Equus stealing bargain basement sales. Deciding to merely warm over such a car after a 6-year life-cycle cost them even more sales. BMW overtook Lexus by the end of 2011.

Audi has never done that nor to my chagrin, has Jaguar. It all went to hell when the W222 debuted and deservedly maintained its perch at the top after knocking out every one of its competitors of the park.

Your claim that Lexus has never been able to compete in this segment is grossly inaccurate, when the LS400, LS430 and 2006-2009 LS460 dominated this class for many years, in the largest market for such vehicles with only one engine offering (LS600HL is not a volume model).

2006 is the only year prior to 2011, when the LS wasn't first in sales, due to no one buying the outgoing LS430 and waiting until the October 2006 launch of the LS460.

The W221 had 9-10 months of U.S. sales in 2006, to make up for lost ground from the W220. The LS returned to its sales perch with a new worldwide sales record of nearly 73,000 in 2007, leaving it only second to the W221 globally and first at over 35k stateside. As of late, it barely sold over 7,000 in 2015 and is usually 3rd place behind BMW.

Just because you do not like the company, does not make your claim valid. As a European, Lexus is uncompetitive with the LS due to limited powertrain offerings and patriotism/xenophobia of locals.

If one compared pre-2010 LS430 and LS460 sales between the past S430/S450 S500, XJ8, 745/750i, and A8 4.2 in non-US countries that sell Lexus, it would paint a fairer portrait of global sales. The vast majority of European flagship sales are diesels, hence the low LS sales at face value. Having a diesel does not make a saloon/limousine prestigious nor does it detract from that.

You do have a good point regarding the styling, they should've done more differentiate it from the current line-up. Problem is, that the LF-LC was an old design and barely going into production, meaning they could not deviate from it too much and risk dating it too much with a radically different saloon counterpart.

I had said last year and the year before, that Lexus needed to enhance the LF-LC Concept's design, so that the production LC can have a longer shelf life and not merely leave it untouched. Directly basing it on a 5-year old concept may not work out in the long run, when that car will have an 8-10 year life-cycle and 15-year old design on top of that.

This rendering I provided is too conservative, is usually the case with the actual final product from Lexus.

looks close to the LF-FC concept

cidflekken - I like MB just as much as you do but let's not talk down on other mfrs. The fact is, Lexus' success in the US was totally unanticipated by MB and BMW and Lexus drove all other mfrs to improve their quality, dependability and dealership's service. If the lower model is so unimportant, why are MB and BMW all offering entry level models now?

LEXUS is doing quite well in the entry level only. They cannot compete on the higher end. I had a LS460 and traded it in after many miles for an MB. Except for the grill, it looked exactly as the car on the picture. As you mentioned, "in the US", ever wonder why they haven't been able to catch worldwide? Why do they still have Toyota badges in some parts of the world? It seems when people in the US wants real luxury they turn away from LEXUS. Just look at the numbers.

By the way, good point on "LEXUS driving all other mfrs to improve their quality, dependability and dealership's service."

Clearly, you miss the point. It's not about talking down at all. I don't need to do that. The numbers speak for themselves. And no one said the lower-end models weren't important. But the MORE IMPORTANT segments for a LUXURY BRAND, this is where Lexus is clearly and easily losing. In addition, if Mercedes truly wanted to just sell a lower-end model to get volume, they would have made a $30k CLA with a much larger backseat to make it more accessible and user friendly for the masses. Same with BMW and the 2 Series. They aren't just going after customers looking for a lower-priced luxury model. Mercedes and BMW could easily build a German Accord, but they don't.

Well USNA1999, you cannot be more inaccurate with your comment which is laden with so many fallacies. None of the Lexus models on sale today, wear Toyota badges elsewhere, as was the case pre-2005.

The global Land Cruiser range in the 200 and 150 Prado, are not your average Corolla or Camry, as they are premium Toyota products. Swapping badges on those isn't sacrilege, like putting a Lexus badge on a Corolla or a Yaris. Sharing a common platform and a few components does not make a rebadge.

There are no more Windoms, Celsiors, Aristos, nor identical Harrier anymore. Those were solely JDM products that ceased to exist in 2005-06 or redesigned separately on a different platform (Harrier). No reason to be ignorant of that.

The only reason Lexus does not sell well in mainland Europe is that they do not offer practical engine offerings, that are favourable with local taxation. You are rarely going to see an LS460, IS350, 750i, or S500 compared to that of a C220 Bluetec, 730d, or S350 Bluetec.

While I can afford an LS600h hybrid as of late, it is prohibitively costly for the average buyer here, as are the petrol V8s like LS460, S500, and the 3.5 litre V6 Lexus cars are not offered here at all. Until recently, Lexus entry prices were too expensive to bother with over MB and BMW. The new 2.0 turbos are not fantastic and need some work. The hybrids are Lexus' answer to diesel.

To claim that people dismiss the brand over "real luxury" is utter poppycock and nothing more than a bitter singular opinion. The only real argument in that aspect is the lack of customisation being offered to European customers and limited non-hybrid powertrain choices, as well as dated flagship products.

Not only that, but Toyota has been stupidly slow to expand Lexus into other territories. You properly cannot compete, if you do not have equal brand presence. There are many countries in Africa and Asia that have official Audi, BMW, and Mercedes-Benz retailers, where Lexus has none. This goes beyond product. However, this does not mean they run selling Lexus models as Toyotas in other countries. Figure that one out, than making fallacious statements.

If you very much have distaste for Lexus, then why did you dare to make the mistake of owning an LS460 in the first place? One continues to hear you go on and on lamenting about how you think it was a terrible car, yet cannot help but wonder about your reasoning in the first place to buy one.

Of the many vehicles I owned, I only had distaste towards the 2013 Subaru BR-Z I owned for 6 months when lived in Manhattan. Despite hating it, I never have gone out of my way to continually bash it and bore people to death with my hatred of it and the Scion FR-S.

Back to the point, Lexus used to do very well as a bargain offering in the upper volume luxury segment. The financial crash and mediocre LS facelift, killed the current LS, when everyone else richly updated (W221 MB) or redesigned their flagships (X351 XJ, D

(To USNA1999 cont')

Back to the point, Lexus used to do very well as a bargain offering in the upper volume luxury segment. The financial crash and mediocre LS facelift, killed the current LS, when everyone else richly updated (W221 MB) or redesigned their flagships (X351 XJ, D4 A8), lowered their base prices (BMW 740i), or new entrants arrived (Hyundai).

With a niche offering in the LX or limited (or inferior) engine offerings in the GS, no proper coupe (RC is entry-mid level), how could Lexus compete in the upper end? The LS redesign was delayed after the recall crisis once the current GS programme was not cancelled and the wasteful LFA project cost them development money. They spent all of 2010 designing the much cheaper MY2013 facelift, hoping it would last merely 2 years through early 2015.

By the time the LC coupe 950A programme was approved in 2012-13, the demands of engineering the LF-LC and the new W222 S-Class being a juggernaut set them back even further. They barely settled on a final LS design in the third quarter of 2014, which the LF-FC Concept echoes.

The truth is, Lexus has some of the worst and slow to react product planners in this segment, despite being the only Japanese contender. My point was, that your belief that Lexus is unable to compete in being not "luxurious" enough is utter nonsense. They cannot fully compete because they have phoned in their upper end products with outdated offerings until the LC, smaller global sales network, and limited range of powertrains and models.

While I am new to shopping in this segment (flagship/large lux) my parents and grandparents have done so for years. Lexus has never been on their radar, except for GX, LX, RX, and ISC. The former two for semi-fleet purposes and the RX & ISC for their subordinates (daughter, etc).

Bentley (pre-VW products), BMW, and Jaguar Land Rover have been my parents' sole buying focus in regards to various generations of the XJ, 7-Series, and now a Range Rover as personal vehicles. They've only looked at Lexus vehicles as respectable appliances, as gift or fleet purchases. My maternal grandfather imported and sold BMWs 3-4 decades ago, thus my mother's staunch favoritism towards BMW (and by default the 7-Series) and general disdain for Lexus.

I alternatively went to work for JLR, due to my father's longtime Jaguar ownership and both of our own connections to Birmingham and Coventry. Alternatively I was interested in Lexus, but did not want to move to Japan nor work for mediocre Toyota R&D (assisting) subsidiaries in Michigan and Kentucky.

From that biased personal background and of JLR professionally, I can still remain highly objective of and impartial to competition. I see the potential for Lexus to grow and improve from correcting past mistakes with a redesigned upper range of models. Even with the love or hate it in your face styling.

I do not get the group think antics of deriding every move this brand makes on this site. Is it

I do not get the group think antics of deriding every move this brand makes on this site. Is it because of past ignorant Lexus sycophants or something else I am missing? I would expect myself to harbour ill will towards Japanese luxury brands as a member of a competin, sufferingg industry, than that of a forum of commenters/commentators who are hardly involved.

If it is not lambasting Jaguar for being a poor seller or a stereotyping them as "unreliable", it is eternally singing the praises of Audi, BMW, and Mercedes-Benz no matter what they do right or wrong. Learn the meaning of objectivity and that of accuracy, as those 3 are not without fault.

Ignoring the grill for the moment, the body is generic in these pictures. Nothing new or innovative in the body. Now the grill: the LS already has a overlarge spindle grill. What this rendering adds is the kaleidoscope mesh and swoosh lights from the down market cars. That would be the problem. The LS would then be mimicking its down market stable mates, and thus would be associated with down market vehicles. When a manufacturer introduces a bold design in the upmarket cars, and then lets the down market cars borrow those styling cues, it makes the down market cars look desirable. It won't work in reverse. So I doubt that these photos show the future of the LS. I hope Lexus finds a way to create a break out design for the LS. And the interior needs to be very special. The design language they have been using lately in the down market cars looks cheap.

As the source of this photo, which Auto Spies took the liberty of grabbing from Lexus Enthusiast (I provided it to them) and posting here, I must clarify that Mag X does not favour non-Japanese membership and threatened to terminate my membership for publicising this page that I bought from their June 2016 issue.

Anyway, Toyota in the past showed a final design clay model of the 2007 LS to Japanese journalists in the summer of 2004. During August 2004 and April 2005, a few of them released dead accurate renderings of the final design. They usually have credibility.

I can imagine Mag X or their artist were either shown a prototype or given a detailed description of the 2018 car, which its design might've been frozen in the 3rd quarter of 2014.

The LF-FC will not serve as direct inspiration, since the production car was designed in 2013-14. A lot of insider commentary on the design started pouring out in the summer of 2014, as that is when Lexus Europe executive were shown a final clay model of the 2018 LS.

In October 2014, a Lexus UK personnel were shown a running prototype of a 3.0 twin-turbo V6 LS saloon, which was similar to the 2015 LF-FC Concept.

Looking at the LF-FC Concept and a very ugly December 2014 rendering of the 2018 LS from Best Car Japanese magazine, on both designs there was a special L-shaped character line that formed along the LED DRLS up to the top near the front fender.

It is missing in this rendering, which tells me it might be close, but not fully accurate. Judging by the Best Car 2014 rendering, that character line is on the actual LS as it later appeared on the LF-FC, yet is not in this recent rendering. The actual LS is likely more aggressive and lengthier than this rendering.

You very much have a point Gary, as I had said that I would prefer Toyota invested in creating a new design language for the LS. Unfortunately they boxed themselves in with LF-LC Concept, which took bloody forever to be turned into a production car and could not design another flagship car too different from it.

The LF-LC was actually designed to preview the Lexus 2012 to 2015 range, meaning it restricted them from branching out away from current Lexus design.

BMW for whatever stupid reason, did similar with the new 7-Series back in 2011, even with the knowledge of the W222 S-Class final design, which returnee to BMW from MB Karim Habib possessed for 16-17 months before the G11 design freeze in 2012.

It seems that BMW is counting on the G20 3er to introduce new design and Lexus again look to the 2019 GS to introduce a new design, which I find to be stupid in my opinion. Top down approach is the proper way to do things and your flagship isn't worth a damn!

Rest assured, as I said before in my mistaken reply to you, the rendering I provided from Mag X may not be 100% for various reasons and the actual car quite more chiseled and dynamic than this. You will see next January, as spy shots will do no good anyway and NAIAS 2017 is the debut.

The Lexus franchise's success is nearly 100% based on the ES, RX, and NX. The LS is a mere footnote. Those that sell transact well below list.

You know very well that was not always the case, which is how they ever managed to enter Tier 1. Especially in how the LS was the best selling flagship for many, many years, only slowing one year during a major redesign against the W221. It might have been lonely at the top for the LS, with the lacklustre SC430 and GS being irrelevant and LX a niche product after the early 2000s (onslaught of luxurious or more refined competitors from Porsche, BMW, MB, RR, Cadillac, etc)

When Lexus let the RX become the face of the brand and let the clout created by the LS400 and LX470 go to waste with the uninspired LS430 and cumbersome LX570. As well as the poorly done 2007-2017 LS600h and 2009+ LS refresh, not even the LFA and 2006-09 LS460 could stave off the decline of the upper end of Lexus.

The new LC and LS are intended to change that, as a true contemporary luxury brand is not one of aging models and FWD dominance. The LS lost its sales crown in 2010, after nearly uninterrupted dominance since Y2K.

not much different from today, other than the grill is even more cartoonish

As the source of this photo, which Auto Spies took the liberty of grabbing from Lexus Enthusiast (I provided it to them) and posting here, I must clarify that Mag X does not favour non-Japanese membership and threatened to terminate my membership for publicising this page that I bought from their June 2016 issue.

Anyway, Toyota in the past showed a final design clay model of the 2007 LS to Japanese journalists in the summer of 2004. During August 2004 and April 2005, a few of them released dead accurate renderings of the final design. They usually have credibility.

I can imagine Mag X or their artist were either shown a prototype or given a detailed description of the 2018 car, which its design might've been frozen in the 3rd quarter of 2014.

The LF-FC will not serve as direct inspiration, since the production car was designed in 2013-14. A lot of insider commentary on the design started pouring out in the summer of 2014, as that is when Lexus Europe executive were shown a final clay model of the 2018 LS.

In October 2014, a Lexus UK personnel were shown a running prototype of a 3.0 twin-turbo V6 LS saloon, which was similar to the 2015 LF-FC Concept.

Looking at the LF-FC Concept and a very ugly December 2014 rendering of the 2018 LS from Best Car Japanese magazine, on both designs there was a special L-shaped character line that formed along the LED DRLS up to the top near the front fender.

It is missing in this rendering, which tells me it might be close, but not fully accurate. Judging by the Best Car 2014 rendering, that character line is on the actual LS as it later appeared on the LF-FC, yet is not in this recent rendering. The actual LS is likely more aggressive and lengthier than this rendering.

F**kin hideous..