SPIED: Uh Oh!? Is Lexus On Track To Make The SAME Mistake With Its Next-Gen LS That BMW Made With The 7-Series?

Lexus is a SECOND TIER premium car manufacturer whose most selling vehicles remain the Es350 - based on a TOYOTA - and the RX - also based on a Toyota - which compete well with Buick, Audi,Infiniti, and Volvo - and Toyota is comfortable with that. THe styling of a new large car is of no consequence - a Lexus simply does not have the pedigree to compete with the REAL Luxury class that Mercedes leads. In fact - even BMW is largely a small sports sedan manufacturer - and that they make their large sedan LOOK like their small sedans is a mistake. People buying Luxury Premium first tier cars do not want excessive boldness (If you can call a cow-catcher grill bold - I call it something else) - they also do not want a small sports car look - they want Classic Elegance in style. Lexus cannot be further away from that with their new monstrosity

Gotta agree with Tom (+1). When I think of a large luxury sedan, I think Mercedes S-Class at the bottom, and Bentley and Rolls Royce at the top. Lexus? Not even in the picture.


Re: this post's "...You see, the LF-FC concept that Lexus has been taking around looks very, very good..." -- My first reaction to that is "in a pig's eye." Lexus is known for hideous front ends, and the LF-FC delivers. Additionally, the rear end is equally heinous. It's an abomination of automotive design.

Now how are these models based directly on a Toyota? The company that manufacturers them, is the Toyota Motor Corporation, so there is no escaping that. Can you prove outright, that Toyota entirely developed the Avalon and then just tossed on ES sheetmetal? What makes it "based on a Toyota"?

Development timelines go against that theory, when it is the reverse. They are only guilty of allowing a premium badge product to share a common platform and powertrain with mass market brand offerings, plus using the same suppliers for some hidden components.

Lexus had done reasonably well in the past selling the LS, but botched keeping any momentum with little-to-no updates and never making a case for the range topping model's prestige (LS600). Lexus sales have suffered due to product decay and numerous surrounding factors, not that of your singular opinion believing they cannot compete due to being a Toyota.

I have not given a damn about RR and Bentley since the last of the Vickers-created products went out of production. Mulsanne is overwrought and tacky. The Rolls-Royce line-up consists of nothing more than blocky outdated trash-magnets and reskinned BMWs. The Continental and Flying Spur I won't even consider as Bentleys. MB-Maybach doesn't seem to be worth more than an LWB W222.

Lexus will never compete, as they will never make a saloon that attracts oligarchs and mafia members like flies. Only a model concerning the S500/S550, is what you'll see, which this is possibly a turbo V8 mule testing. No one is investing in new V12s nor ressurrecting past units.

You cannot base anything on this test mule, which is based on the on-life support current LS.

IMO ...and everyone here has one.
1. Benz, Lexus.

and everyone else! But the interior better be damn great. The benz S is awsome. Only issue is reliability w/ benz..

Seems like Lexus is stuck with the decision to make the next-gen LS a driver-oriented car or should it be more geared towards the chauffeured set of consumers. The gamble on one or the other is the obvious risk.

The LS has never been publicly known as a "driver's car" where the driver feels connected as the vehicle delivers on-road performance. It's just been a trendy large luxury car that's not as "necessary" today - considering the industry trend for SUVs.

BMW has chosen to provide meaningful updates to the mature 7er - which is more of a drivers car than the S-class - rather than do an overly styled exterior which may have stolen some critical initial attention from the i8. That's playing it smart safe as their SUVs are getting more attention. They've even given MINI "larger" platforms to work with.

The argument over "TIER" levels is somewhat biased I think. Biases toward history & "pedigree" tend to overshadow market price ranges for these uber-luxed street movers that all accomplish the same things, it's just about the "who" is offering it & will the neighbors be envious enough to want one of their own.

And your point is? Porsche SUVs are built on a shared platform with VW. Not a Lexus nut as I've had German and Japanese at various points, but every car maker does the exact same thing with their different product levels.

Doubt this prototype's body is representative of the final product. Looks like the current body stretched around the next-gen platform.

Yep, it's definitely not it. That one is being tested in private still. Do not expect to see anything, until 10 months before production starts next summerish. Unlike the LC500, they will hide it for as long as possible and opt to use these ugly mules.

The car was already designed by mid-2014, so clearly they are just hiding it and doing hidden testing.

Side profile is ok, front grill is really getting out of hand now…looks like it has a busted lip on the bottom in those front end pics. Rear looks like the current IS… always kind of looked like someone had hit it in the rear to me.

It's pretty clear that this will essentially be the new production model. There are enough details that differentiate it from the current model to think that this was simple a mule. At the same time, and, sadly, there's enough old detail to see that this isn't much of a departure from the current model, either.

It's pretty clear that this will essentially be the new production model. There are enough details that appear to differentiate it from the current model to see that it's not just the current body hiding different innards. At the same time, and, sadly, there's enough old detail to see that this isn't much of a departure from the current model, either.

It is quite clear, that you are utterly clueless if believe that and choose to be out of indifference. That is not it. This is the same mechanical test mule that similar has been seen for the better part of a year in Japan, now in LHD.

They are not testing design-specific prototypes publicly yet, except in secret. Unlike, MB and BMW, most firms prefer to keep things close to vest and exhaust every measure behind closed doors, until no longer possible. Plenty of testing is done at night, in remote areas.

LOL. OKay, whatever you say.

Agent00R, you are quite respectable, so one expects you to be on top of your reporting. This is obviously a mule, NOT the production body. BMW does similar. Not only is it a mechanical mule, it has a turbo engine and is testing with twin-turbo V8 competitors. After the LC500, I had been skeptical of a twin-turbo V8 LS. This might be a possibility after all, which I find self-defeating (in regards to LC500).

Looks great from the side. But the front and back ends—Oy! There aren't even words to express this disgusting, ill-designed mess. My opinion.

To get more traction in the market Lexus has to dare to be different. You cannot beat the old guard at their own game. You cannot stay in their lane to catch or pass them you have to take a new path. The original success of Lexus was greater quality at a lesser price. Now with all cars of comparable quality and price its design and technology that offer opportunities for differentiation and gains. The key for Lexus I believe is to be Lexus (quality, lower price point, unique design)and build on its heritage not try to be German. Just saying...

I agree with everything you said, except price point. While there's no way in hell they would charge the same amount for an S-Class, I do recommend that they close the gap a bit more with Audi and BMW in price.

In order to take this car more upmarket, they cannot keep significantly undercutting their competitors. They need to raise the bar, while not letting costs get so out of control, that it leaves them with an overpriced product, with not enough content and/or tech to warrant its much higher price.

The UK price for LS will significantly decrease due to a new engine lineup, which includes a turbo I4, twin-turbo V6, hybrid LS500h, and LS500 V8. Stateside, the I4 LS250t will not be offered.

@Carmaker1 Please quit the "long ass" posts, they are giving everyone a headache. You must be getting paid by LEXUS.

I would only expect you, as to be so stupid to make such a fallacious comment. Last time I checked, JLR did not stand for Lexus nor anything Toyota-owned. Clearly you live under a rock, since I already addressed I am UK-based and Lexus R&D is not here in the least.

I don't see how commenting on this, entails that I am somehow being "paid". I do well enough and do not even depend on my job at Jaguar. I work as an engineer, because I want to, not because I need to.

I have obviously never worked for Toyota and have no wish to do so. Even so, that is unimportant. Are you that shortsighted, as to not realise there are other people that do not think so rigidly the way you do and try not to have lopsided bias overwhelm their thought process?

Whether it's the S-Class modellpflege/facelift, this new LS, D5 A8, or Infiniti Q80, I observe and approach them equally in this segment. The XJ, I do not discuss over contractual NDA concerns and many other reasons. For that matter, real enthusiasts are not so blinded by badge or nameplate.

I will type as long as I please, as I couldn't give a bloody care what bothers you and a few nitwit hipsters. Many of you forget an opinion is an opinion, not objective fact and type in negative absolutes as if your word somehow matters in the end.

If it is not you lambasting Lexus, it is Jaguar, Infiniti, or anything without a German badge or German parental ownership (i.e. Bentley-VAG). Enough people are tired of such heavy-handed Eurocentric/Germanic bias here. The same way many of us got tired of rabid Toyota sycophants in the past.

BMW and Mercedes-Benz (Audi to lesser degree) make fine products, but have many badge-obsessed idiots as followers and this site's comment sections support that theory succinctly.

Figure it out, that no one cares you bought a bargain basement LS460 and hated it, nor your billionth complaint about Lexus grilles. Hope you get a good headache from all of that or just skip it, to keep quiet for once.

Headache! Not staying quiet since I can get under your skin in just a few sentences. You must have me confused, I don't think I have ever said anything about the LEXUS grille. I actually like it, I have actually stated that I might get an RC, I have never been loyal to any car brand. As for my old LS, it wasn't the "bargain basement". Lots of money being handed out by LEXUS to move those models, that is why I purchased it. You ever had buyer's remorse? I never said I "hate it", my point if that it wasn't as reliable as everyone claims. Same number of issues as my old American and European automobiles. So, get your head out of your behind, your facts straight and keep moving the assembly line at JAG.

@jameswisrik - Lexus is ONLY a tier 1 in the minds of most Americans. The rest of the world considers them as tier 2 on par with Volvo and Infiniti.
The grill is scary. If that's what Lexus wanted to achieve, then they succeeded.
I feel that Toy/Lex is doing way too much to their cars. The size/length of the lights are too complicated IMO. I'm sure some will look at it and think it's futuristic. But cars like that are out dated rather quickly.
US sales will be okay I think, but good luck selling them in other countries.

Just another step towards obscuity for Lexus in the US. It copies the Tesla in profile and looks like a Japanese cartoon car front and back. At least they aren't coping MB anymore.