EXCLUSIVE: Poor Audi resale value perception but not reality?

Dear 001,

One thing that always gets me on the internet is that I read negative statements about Audi resale value way too often. Things like "yeah the Audi is great, but what about the resale value" or "the value of the Audi will drop like a stone when you drive it off the lot." You've probably read the same.

I wouldn't mind if it were true, but it is not - with maybe the exception of the A6.

I have the data to prove it.

The data comes from ALG (Automotive Lease Guide) who is the definitive resource for ALL automotive financing companies when it comes the projected resale values. All companies use ALG as their basis for residual values. Some bump the RVs to help sales, but all use ALG as the base point. So, if you see someone out there with a higher RV than ALG it is because they are incentizing it - they do this as do most manufacturers.

So, here are the RVs for different models in the luxury class based on ALG for 24 month terms. In two years, the following 2007 vehicles will be worth x% of MSRP:

Compact Class

.

Audi A4 2.0T quattro 68%

Audi A4 2.0T 68%

Acura TL 67%

Lexus IS250 66%

Lexus IS350 66%

Audi A4 3.2 quattro 65% Lexus IS250 AWD 65%

BMW 328i 65%

BMW 328xi 65%

Audi A4 3.2 64%

BMW 335i 64%

Mercedes C230 63%

Mercedes C280 4Matic 60%

Mercedes C280 59%

Saab 9-3 2.0T 59%

Mercedes C350 54%

Volvo V60 2.5T AWD 53%

Volvo V60 2.5T 52%

Jaguar X-Type 51%

Midsize Class

.

BMW 530i 67%

BMW 530xi 67%

Mercedes E350 4Matic 67%

BMW 525i 66%

BMW 525xi 66%

Infiniti M35 63%

Infiniti M45 63%

BMW 550i 63%

Infiniti M35 AWD 61%

Mercedes E550 4Matic 61%

Acura RL 59%

Audi A6 3.2 59%

Audi A6 4.2 quattro 59%

Lexus GS350 AWD 59%

Saab 9-5 2.3T 59%

Audi A6 3.2 quattro 58%

Infiniti Q45 50%

Jaguar S Type 4.2 48%

Jaguar S Type 3.0 47%

Large Class

.

Mercedes S550 61%

Mercedes S550 4Matic 61%

Audi A8 quattro 59%

Audi A8L quattro 58%

BMW 750i 57%

BMW 750Li 56%

Jaguar XJ8 52%

Jaguar XJ8L 52%

SUV Class

.

Audi Q7 3.6 66%

Lexus GX470 66%

Land Rover LR3 V8 SE 65%

Audi Q7 4.2 64%

Infiniti FX35 64%

Volvo XC90 V8 64%

Land Rover LR3 V6 SE 63%

Lexus LX470 62%

Mercedes ML350 62%

Mercedes ML500 62%

Mercedes GL450 62%

BMW X5 3.0 61%

Volvo XC90 3.2 61%

Infiniti FX45 59%

Mercedes R500 59%

Mercedes R350 59%

Saab 9-7X 58%

BMW X5 4.8 57%

Infiniti QX56 56%

This clearly shows that the reality and the perception are very different regarding resale values.

By the way, even though we hate to admit it, all of us in the industry think AutoSpies.com is the best auto website out there...bar none.

Morocco the car leasing agent mole

watisthat - 10/2/2006 1:37:33 PM

+2 Boost

autospies is the best.....

PlanoA4 - 10/2/2006 3:19:20 PM

+3 Boost

Funny, you see the truth and simply put the head back close the eyes and mumble "there is no place like home, there is no place like home" Will, you kill me.

AUDIMAN4 - 10/2/2006 4:04:00 PM

0 Boost

Lexus did have generally better resale but now it doesn't seem to be the case anymore. The brand has become so popular in some areas, like Dallas, that supply is exceeding demand.

Sauceboy01 - 10/2/2006 1:59:58 PM

0 Boost

definitely a reality.

Rupert - 10/2/2006 2:17:20 PM

+1 Boost

will, no it doesn't. it shows that audis in general have better resale values than mercs and bmws.
take the suv market, q7 3.6 holds its value best, 5% more than the x5 3.0.

in the uk this has always been the case, bmws drop like stones.

halfpast3 - 10/2/2006 6:18:32 PM

+1 Boost

Bad choice rup. The Q7 is brand spankin new and the X5 is 7 years old due for a complete makeover. Of coarse it is going to have a low residual. Not a fair comparison.

I95SPEEDINGTICKETS - 10/2/2006 2:56:11 PM

+3 Boost

Will
In the Uk & Europe, BMW & MB prices have almost always halved in less than 3 years, Especially BMWs

The AUDI Resale prices have always been better (% of Purchase Price)

Anything With a Large Engine will suffer even more in terms of Resale Value.

Not Sure About NA Market Though.

kart1 - 10/2/2006 3:01:37 PM

+2 Boost

check this webpage from the same people where the info is from:

https://www.alg.com/deprratings.aspx.

There are no Audi's in the 5 star area and there is only 1 Audi in the 4 star area. Also why aren't these models included in the list above: Acura TSX, Infiniti G35, Lexus RX. These are popular models and also the have high resale values.

chewy - 10/2/2006 3:14:59 PM

+1 Boost

The data shows it. It won't be long before this is reflected in actual used vehicle sales.

kart1 - 10/2/2006 3:19:06 PM

+2 Boost

One more webpage here dealing with resale, this is from msn:

http://autos.msn.com/advice/article.aspx?contentid=4022645.

BMW and MINI have top spots for resale.

KeyserSoze - 10/2/2006 3:29:36 PM

+2 Boost

I prefer VW's to AUDI's. The Problem is that VW's have become so good that it is unnecessary to buy an AUDI. The new Jetta is a case in point, why people buy AUDI's is puzzling A3=Golf,Jetta=A4, Phaeton=A8 etc...

AUDIMAN4 - 10/2/2006 4:06:04 PM

0 Boost

Just like ES=Camry, RX=Highlander, GX=4 Runner, LX=Landcruiser.

No Audi other than the A3 shares a platform with a VW. Can't say the same about Lexus.

Rupert - 10/2/2006 5:23:24 PM

0 Boost

the jetta has nothing to do with the a4.
no vw has anything to do with the a4, a6 or a8

PlanoA4 - 10/3/2006 8:32:46 AM

+1 Boost

The TT shares a modified chassis

PlanoA4 - 10/2/2006 3:34:18 PM

+2 Boost

Resale and residuals are different. Residuals can be enhanced by the factory. Keep that in mind for future discussion.

lewissalem - 10/2/2006 3:49:22 PM

+1 Boost

Residual values are used to determine lease money factors, right? Would this indicate better lease deals on the A4?

AUDIMAN4 - 10/2/2006 4:08:11 PM

+1 Boost

The A4 can be had with some good leases, depending on what you get. A $40k A4 2.0t S-Line will have residuals close to that of a new IS, and the payments are similar.

kart1 - 10/2/2006 4:12:01 PM

+2 Boost

Audiman4: Touareg = Q7 (stretched platform), A8 = Phaeton, TT = Golf. Just to put forth the facts :).

AUDIMAN4 - 10/2/2006 4:24:57 PM

+1 Boost

The A8 and Phaeton are completely different cars. The A8's platform is all aluminum while the Phaeton is steel.

Tourag/Q7/Cayenne all share a basic platform that was co-developed, so this is not a true VW platform.

chewy - 10/2/2006 4:32:11 PM

+1 Boost

kart1

Check this out, Q7 shares only 15% or so of components of the Touareg and the Porsche Cayenne. The Q7 shares less components with the Touareg than the Porsche Cayenne does. Yes, for you haters the 125,000 Porsche Cayenne shares plenty with the Volkswagen Touareg. If that platform is good enough for Porsche (and rich people that buy them to look cool)it is good enough for you. In fact the Touareg/Cayenne/Q7 platform is better than its competiton. The A8 platform is all aluminum (like the R8) more advanced than about 95% of all platforms. The Phaeton is steel, but the newest Bentelys use it, modified of course. If it good enough for the 200,000+ Bentleys, it is good enough for you. The Bentleys have had amazing sales and great reviews. So kart1, what have we learned, we have learned that some of the most expensive vehicles share common roots with some Volskwagens.

Blakura - 10/22/2006 3:18:50 PM

+1 Boost

I'd just like to mention that the A6 is the platform mate of the passat.

PlanoA4 - 10/2/2006 5:01:47 PM

0 Boost

Actually VW platforms are scalable, that means in the design phase they are all modular to a degree. so while the TT may share a Golf platform, it will differ structurally in many significant ways.

Toyota when sharing simply plops a new body on the exact same platform and calls it a Lexus. Just take a looks at the specifications and they are identical in all key aspects for the chassis.

Is there anything wrong with sharing? No. But to think a body and interior make a better structural design will be a misnomer. All VW Chassis are upgraded to meet the new design needs for life as an Audi. This does not appear to be the case in those Lexus models that share with Toyota siblings.

So basically the feeling is the Audi owner is paying for justifiable enhancements to the chassis and drive train, while the Lexus owner is paying nothing other than trim. A big difference when dynamics are concerned.

KeyserSoze - 10/2/2006 5:16:54 PM

+2 Boost

Yeah right Plano! keep convincing yourself! VW=Audi FACT! GEEZ AUDI GUYS ARE SO INSECURE THAT YOU HAVE TO JUSTIFY EVERYTHING ABOUT THE AUDI VW RELATIOSHIP, SOME OF US KNOW THE FACTS.

PlanoA4 - 10/3/2006 8:35:44 AM

+1 Boost

Nope it is called fact, read up on it, and you will find that out. Education is a wonderful thing!

PlanoA4 - 10/3/2006 8:37:24 AM

+1 Boost

And the Lexus models that share are what? Glorified economy cars? Or simply "Posers"?

PlanoA4 - 10/3/2006 12:05:55 PM

+1 Boost

I am saying that it is far better to design the higher end first and then share down. When you design the lesser brand first and then repackage it off as a higher brand it suffers.

KeyserSoze - 10/2/2006 5:24:11 PM

+2 Boost

I do not hate AUDI's. I owned a 2003 S3 and it was one of the best cars I ever owned, it was fast and reliable, but AUDI is bit of an underachiever overshadowed by its parent company VW. I personaly think VW's are good enough and AUDI's are VW's.

Rupert - 10/2/2006 5:32:01 PM

+1 Boost

logical,
are bentleys and lambos poorly engineered compromises? since they're both audi/vw based, aren't they fwd at start? the cayenne a compromise? the panamera? thats a vw/audi platform.
and what compromise is to be had by buying a vw or audi?
and shitty? strong words coming from a fan of the people that made the z3 and x3.
remind me again, why don't you like audis? fwd seems to be a gripe, but tell me, do you really go around on opposite lock oversteer? it makes zero difference to normal driving.
poorly architechtured? yes, that golf platform is so terrible, vw only use it on 9 cars. (tt, a3, touran, golf, golf plus, octavia, leon, altea, jetta).
the 1 series is the biggest compromise out there, rwd ruins interior space, yet doesn't improve handling.

matt635 - 10/3/2006 4:17:25 AM

+1 Boost

Rupert... If you don't think that there is a difference between RWD and FWD hen you need to learn how to drive.. thats like saying there is no difference between quattro and FWD. And though I don;t drive around with my steering wheel at full opposite lock it still immensley satisfying sliding the back end out even if it's only by a foot or so.

PlanoA4 - 10/3/2006 8:41:44 AM

+1 Boost

Matt if you are sliding the rear end as much as you say, then you are actually going around the corner in a slower manner. While I think it is fun, you are wasting a lot of effort and wasting time.

Read up on how to drive. I know of several driving technique books I can recommend for you.

Rupert - 10/3/2006 1:39:06 PM

+1 Boost

i didnt say there was no difference, just that in normal driving it makes little or no difference.

kart1 - 10/2/2006 5:35:51 PM

+2 Boost

hey chewy calm down. Where have I ever said that platform sharing is a bad thing. I just put down who shares what and you get excited. You guys are very quick to point out what Lexus (And Infiniti and Acura) shares, yet when I put down what VW shares with its partners I have no problem with platform sharing and never have. You are taking you response way too far from what I said. You responded to much more than what I said.

chewy - 10/2/2006 6:17:47 PM

+1 Boost

Ok, I thought you one of those that always bring up the "rebadged Jetta" idea. I also pointed out how VAG does it very well.

iown1 - 10/2/2006 5:36:02 PM

+3 Boost

are you guys 12. who cares about platforms. you either like the car or you don't. it's that simple. you think your getting a better more exclusive car because it doesn't share a platform? Think about it morons. All homes come with a foundation. It's what you do with it afterwards that makes a difference. Do you think for a second that while I'm driving my A8L I give a rats ass if it has a Volkswagen platform? It's a car! A really nice car.

By the by... BMW stock has been downgraded. Reason: Unpromising product lineup in the pipeline. Check out Bloomberg.com. Audi stock... up 88% this year. Ciao!

S4cabriofox - 10/3/2006 9:42:51 PM

+1 Boost

I have stock in Audi too...

Cheers, buddy!

kart1 - 10/2/2006 5:46:54 PM

+3 Boost

this part "You guys are very quick to point out what Lexus (And Infiniti and Acura) shares, yet when I put down what VW shares with its partners I have no problem with platform sharing and never have."

Should say:

You guys are very quick to point out what Lexus (And Infiniti and Acura) shares, yet when anyone says anything about sharing and VAG there is a problem with that. I have no problem with platform sharing and never have.

KeyserSoze - 10/2/2006 5:51:03 PM

+1 Boost

They are all good cars, and the consumer stands to benefit from all this.

crackityjones - 10/2/2006 6:02:46 PM

+2 Boost

All this platform sharing stupidity comes from BMW drivers. BMW drivers are the biggest snobs. You guys drive a 1-dimensional car and try to turn that into an advantage everywhere you can. You knock platform sharing because BMW is this "independent" company. You look for any way to support your 1-dimensional car. Keep flaming you losers!

halfpast3 - 10/2/2006 6:39:46 PM

+2 Boost

I find it odd that this data was used to support Audi resale rather than the 2006 ALG Depreciation Ratings. Oh wait, Audi didn't fair so well there, I get it. That "data" shows Audi behind the likes of MBZ, BMW, and Lexus.

RefuG - 10/2/2006 6:46:11 PM

+1 Boost

jonesoncrack, dont hate, appreciate.

G

crackityjones - 10/2/2006 7:01:19 PM

+2 Boost

I do hate snobs. I will give you that. 90% of cars share parts and even platforms with other cars. It's life in the auto business. But then you get punks driving BMWs telling you your car is a POS. Snobs. I suppose I'm going to hear next that BMW drivers don't die.

GermanNut - 10/2/2006 7:04:41 PM

+3 Boost

No, I think people who drive platform sharing cars are the ones that look down on BMW drivers.

For example, let's take a look at Bentley drivers and Bugatti drivers. They share connections to Volkswagen.

Surely, Bentley and Bugatti drivers looks down at BMW drivers for driving much cheaper priced vehicles.

BMW can counter that they have Rolls-Royce.

To hell with Rolls-Royce, when you look at the price of a Bugatti.

There is no Rolls Royce that is mass produced with a price tag even near $750,000 let alone the +$1 million mark reached by a company with ties to Volkswagen.

Mark - 10/3/2006 7:32:01 AM

+1 Boost

Go change your tampon

S4cabriofox - 10/3/2006 9:45:41 PM

+1 Boost

"we do die. while we are alive though, we are almost always richer, more accomplished and better looking."

Ha!

How much do you make, logical? Because I assure you I make twice as much. I'm sorry I'm putting two kids through school.

And people have told me I should be a model...

crackityjones - 10/2/2006 7:14:35 PM

+3 Boost

Ha!

mitchatlexusofmarin - 10/2/2006 7:42:59 PM

+2 Boost

Audiman- wrong. Beetle=TT Passat=A6 phaeton=A8. I worked at Audi/VW for the intro of all of these.

Neverfollow - 10/3/2006 8:15:28 PM

+1 Boost

Obviously they got rid of you for not bothering to learn your product knowledge. My guess it that they tried to teach you, but you just wouldn't listen just like now.

PlanoA4 - 10/3/2006 12:04:01 PM

+1 Boost

I am just saying if you share platforms from a main line to the luxury line. Then there better be differences to reflect the new design role. If there are not then the consumer is getting ripped off.

S4cabriofox - 10/3/2006 9:48:24 PM

+1 Boost

Will, for once, I completely agree with you. Lexus and Audi are about equal in terms of platform sharing. Lexus improves their cars just as much-- the RX looks nothing like a Highlander; same with the ES/Camry and GX/4Runner... LX470? Well, the LC is good looking to begin with.

One discrepancy: only two Audi models are based on pure VW platforms, the TT and A3. The new TT, however, is about 70% aluminum, which makes it quite different from the Golf. I don't consider the Q7 to be on a VW platform, because it's just as easy to say it's on a Porsche platform.

S4cabriofox - 10/3/2006 9:48:24 PM

+1 Boost

crackityjones - 10/2/2006 7:58:32 PM

-1 Boost

Will, you bastardized Plano's argument. From your posts I think you're intelligent enough to get what he's saying, which is Audi/VW uses just the chassis as a starting place for many very different cars with different dimensions, rides and purposes, while Lexus virtually cross-brands an entire car with some interior modifications. This in many respects is true and I have a lot of admiration for Lexus/Toyota.

mitchatlexusofmarin - 10/2/2006 8:27:46 PM

+2 Boost

Crackity jones- while Will may be intelligent, if you really believe what you just wrote about Lexus/Toyota then I must question either your intelligence, or integrity. That is absolutely, completely untrue.

mitchatlexusofmarin - 10/2/2006 8:33:55 PM

+1 Boost

while Lexus virtually cross-brands an entire car with some interior modifications.

Name one. And don't say Camry/ES350 because it is not even close to true.

Neverfollow - 10/3/2006 8:24:10 PM

+1 Boost

He might not but I will. Lexus ES350/Camry, GX470/Sequoia, LX470/Land Cruiser, RX350/Highlander. In fact the RX350/Highlander is a double shared platform as they both started out as the Camry/EX350 which is also the basis for the Sienna mini van!

crackityjones - 10/2/2006 9:01:00 PM

+2 Boost

Mitch, you are right to question them both. However, when you can't see the difference between car cloning Lexus SUVs from Toyota equivelants, and platform sharing based on the Golf platform to create wildly different cars, then whatever. The comment was an astute one up there. Lexus has--in the past--given platform sharing a bad name by rebadging cars. While they have gotten away from that with their sedans, their SUVs still are largely based on Toyotas. When Lexus people can't own up to Lexus' weak spots, then you do make everyone sticking up for Lexus look foolish.

GermanNut - 10/2/2006 9:26:58 PM

+1 Boost

Of course Logical posts lies again. Audi drivers are on average wealthier than the average BMW customer and are better educated.

Looks are subjective.

So no, Logical, Audi owners are almost always wealthier, more accomplished in terms of their level of education and better looking than BMW drivers.

Sucks for you guys...tell me about your driving dynamics and nonsense interpretation of luxury again.

RefuG - 10/2/2006 9:45:04 PM

+1 Boost

^ are you not buying a BMW?!? Like I always say, dont hate appreciate.

G

crackityjones - 10/2/2006 11:23:57 PM

+2 Boost

You sound like Disco Stu.

GermanNut - 10/2/2006 10:13:18 PM

+1 Boost

Yes, but it really sucks to see such terrible supporters of BMW in this world.

BMW has their driving dynamics which I want to sample, unfortunately people like Logical come with the package.

mitchatlexusofmarin - 10/3/2006 1:09:28 AM

+1 Boost

Crackity- I'll give you the LX, but GX is not a rebadged 4 runner and Rx is definitely not a highlander.

Mitch

crackityjones - 10/3/2006 1:44:05 AM

+1 Boost

The comment about Lexus was more about the past rebadging efforts contributing to a sense (among BMW snobs) that chassis-sharing always led to rebadging, which is not true of course. Not to beat up Lexus. The sedans are extremely original now, including the smoking ES which about snaps my head off in black. I've read the LX is getting a unique design next round.

PlanoA4 - 10/3/2006 9:06:35 AM

0 Boost

Mitch please educate yourself:

http://www.lexus.com/models/rx/road_test.html

Quoted text of interest:

Like the Toyota Highlander, the RX 330 is built on the same platform (with modifications) as the Toyota Camry and Lexus ES 330 sedans.

Neverfollow - 10/3/2006 8:27:22 PM

+1 Boost

Your right, the GX470 is a rebadged Sequoia.

chewy - 10/3/2006 3:03:19 AM

0 Boost

The Highlander and the Rx are awfully similar so much in fact that they share wheelbases with exact same length-same platform.

mitchatlexusofmarin - 10/3/2006 9:39:59 AM

+1 Boost

mitchatlexusofmarin - 10/3/2006 9:42:43 AM

+1 Boost

Mitch please educate yourself:

I am not asserting that the platform isn't shared, and you know that (assuming you can read) I argued that "Lexus virtually cross-brands an entire car with some interior modifications" Is false . Quite a different statement- don'tcha think?

Sorry, waiting for my coffee to kick in, and I have to be at Alameda Point in an hour to drive the LS460/600H.

crackityjones - 10/3/2006 11:27:06 AM

+1 Boost

Mitch. Mitch. Mitch. Keep fighting the good fight.

Neverfollow - 10/3/2006 8:29:44 PM

+1 Boost

Your going to need that coffee to stay awake while driving that thing. Better take an extra shot this morning.