Is Tesla's Quarterly Info Released On SUNDAY A Bit...Sly?

It doesn't matter that Tesla bleeds red ink, has never made a profit, and has never presented a viable business model for making one.

It doesn't matter that Tesla stays afloat NOT from profit, but from government grants, incentives, and from selling shares on the stock market.

It doesn't matter that Tesla has consistently NOT delivered on their sales targets, nor stuck to their delivery timelines, nor ramped up production at their (overly optimistic) stated growth rates.

It doesn't matter that Tesla has huge warranty costs, with over 30% of owners having their entire drivetrain replaced at a mere 60,000 miles!

It doesn't matter that media hacks, who are in love with Tesla, confuse Expenses (which are written off 100% immediately) with Capital Expenditures (which are depreciated gradually over many years), making 100% WRONG statements such as "Tesla would be profitable if they were not building out their infrastructure like their gigafactory." People who know nothing about accounting making accounting claims that excite readers who know nothing about accounting.

It doesn't matter that Tesla hasn't invented any innovative battery or engine technology -- they've just repackaged existing technologies and hyped the hell out of them.

None of that matters! All that matters is that some people are totally pumped about Tesla, and that keeps the PR machine, and media hacks, and stock traders going.

The Steve -
You provide a completely accurate summary of Tesla and the way they run their business, communicate with their customers, and communicate with the business press. House of cards, perhaps.

(Sorry for dipping my toe into the political swamp but) perhaps the ONLY good thing that would come from Donald Trump winning the election is that he would probably immediately pull the plug on all these government subsidies and Telsa would shut down like an obnoxiously loud boom-box unplugged from an electric outlet.

Steve's statement are all completely accurate.

An excellent website for understanding more of Tesla's woes is "Seeking Alpha" http://seekingalpha.com/symbol/TSLA Alpha is an investing term. Please scroll thru some of their articles and make up your own mind before you continue to mindlessly defend Tesla.

@TheSteve:
While many of your points do hold water - your use of hyperboles and distorted facts makes them less incredible. If you just stuck with your opinions, that would be more like the logical you.

Tesla deserves to be punished for missing the Q2 delivery mark. Unlike traditional automakers who need the dealers' last minute book cooking to come up with sales numbers, Tesla has total control of the delivery schedule, and should have issued warning prior to quarter end. I fully expected the see a 10% drop today. But today's market is any indication, Tesla is doing no worse than the big 3: TSLA -3.4%, GM -2.3%, F -2.6%, FCA -7.7%. That confirms that the markets know nothing about Tesla, OR that you overestimated yourself in frowing upon "People who know nothing about accounting making accounting claims that excite readers who know nothing about accounting."

Regarding "that Tesla hasn't invented any innovative battery or engine technology -- they've just repackaged existing technologies and hyped the hell out of them", I totally disagree. I don't know any other EV out there that offers half the capability of the Tesla in terms of:

- Performance: low Cd, acceleration but more importantly handling
- Technical advances: Insane/Ludicrous mode, OTA updates, and even the highly criticized AP.
- Aesthetics: EV without looking like an eye sore (i3, Leaf, ...)

If it's simply repackaged old technology, other car companies would have competing products by now (hello MB, VAG, BMW, GM, F, Toyota, ...). The i8 comes closest in performance, and it's still lagging behing the porky Model S. Here is an old review for your reference: "The P85D weighs almost 5,000 pounds while the carbon-fiber i8 weighs about 3,500. Still, Tesla destroys the i8 on the metric of 0–60 mph. It makes the dash in about 3.2 seconds whereas the BMW takes about 4.2 seconds."

@TheSteve:
While many of your points do hold water - your use of hyperboles and distorted facts makes them less credible <typo corrected>

HenryN wrote “…Regarding "that Tesla hasn't invented any innovative battery or engine technology -- they've just repackaged existing technologies and hyped the hell out of them", I totally disagree…”

I understand you disagree. You must not be aware that Tesla uses conventional and common Lithium batteries, and they use conventional and common axial electric motors. You are free to disagree, and you are free to believe that Tesla (the motor company, not Nokola the inventor) invented these.

@TheSteve: sure they use Lithium in their batteries, and "conventional" motors. Let's see who else can dump 1500 Amps into the motors without frying them first ?

HenryN: Are you aware that different electric motors have different ratings? Also, you can't "dump" amps, you *draw* them as needed.

Using the formula Amps x Volts = Watts, you get a better understanding of the relationship (BTW, the Watts translate into power). For example, you can have a supply of 15 Amps on a 120 Volt household power line (AC socket), and it can SUPPLY up to 1800 watts before it blows a 15 amp circuit breaker or fuse. However, plug in a 200 mw (that's milliwatts, or thousandths of a watt, or 0.2 watts) LED night light, and the night light will draw only 0.2 watts, even though the electrical socket can supply 1800 watts.

HenryN wrote “sure they use Lithium in their batteries, and "conventional" motors. Let's see who else can dump 1500 Amps into the motors without frying them first?”


Something important to note is public perception, which believes Tesla makes high quality vehicles with few defects, and they’ve developed reliable, usable electric drivetrains (regardless if it’s by using conventional tech or they believe Tesla invented it).

But are you aware that approximately 1/3 of all Tesla Model S owners have had to have their entire drivetrain replaced before 60,000 miles? Yes, Tesla paid for it, even if they were out of warranty (thanks Tesla!), but this level of premature failure, or perhaps this massive scale of consumables (you need to replace your batteries at about 100,000 miles, and your drivetrain at about 60,000 miles) is shocking, to say the least.

The Tesla Motor Company is not, in fact, what many people believe it to be!

A little bit dramatic (and mostly inaccurate), Steve =) The only one I'll both commenting on is the battery and powertrain, since there is not a single other car company on the planet that has a competitive battery for cars or a mass production electric powertrain in the same class... not one. I haven't even heard one ANNOUNCED for the next 3 years that will be in the same league (a Porsche in 2020 is the closest). The Model S is pushing 300 miles per charge with 0-60 in the low 4 second range without a performance edition.

Also they use their own proprietary chemistry for the batteries, they are not off-the-shelf laptop batteries.

Cash the check from Tesla before it bounces.

Do you wear pads when you kneel before the Holy Musk?

runbuh wrote "it doesn't matter that TheSteve can't get his facts straight... [Tesla's sales rose last quarter]..."

You give us a demo of selective reading/comprehension. If you re-read my post, you will hopefully notice I did NOT assert that Tesla sales are flat or declining, which you could then counter by showing that they rose last quarter. I indicated that Tesla has a long established history of missing their sales targets, and delivering late. And if you read any press about Tesla's most recent sales numbers, including Tesla's ***OWN*** PR, you will see abundant proof to support my assertion.

runbuh also wrote “…In total, 5,150 customer-ordered vehicles were still in transit…”

Yes. And we call those “orders in transit” and ***NOT*** sales! There are always orders in transit, for all companies, and nobody cares because they are not counted as sales. A sale is when the customer takes possession of their vehicle. That’s how everyone else counts sales.

Additionally, the orders in transit at the end of June will be counted as July sales when they finally get to their destination and the customer takes delivery of their vehicle. So note that this is a red herring, because at the end of the year (e.g., and the end of 2015), we still got an “actual units sold” number that fell short of Tesla’s targets, even though January 2015 benefitted a little from December 2014’s orders in transit that showed up as January 2015 sales. In the end, it’s a wash for the year. It’s also a wash quarter to quarter, and month to month, for exactly the same reason. That’s why the auto industry ignores orders in transit, but Musk needs to introduce this red herring to divert attention from the fact that once again, he didn’t make his forecasted sales numbers.

So we have two, totally separate things going on: (1) Tesla sales are growing (good!), and (2) Tesla is consistently missing their sales forecasts (bad), which speaks to Musk’s consistently overly optimistic predictions and rosy depiction of the future.

At heart, Tesla is a dishonest car company that does things the way they do because they are fundamentally....well dishonest.

Unfortunately, there's a lot of that going around :-( Numerous large enterprises (Apple Computer Inc., being one of the latest) are now routinely reporting "the numbers" NOT according to GAAP (Generally Accepted Accounting Principles). That means investors get duped with an inaccurately optimistic (and arguably intentionally misleading and false) financial picture.

I love when companies report "orders" as "sales" or "orders" as "orders" for that matter. Stock that is pushed out to dealers is called "orders" whether people have ordered them or not. FCA pulled this stunt with the introduction of the 200 saying that "orders" were through the roof. They were producing like mad and pushing them out to dealers, but customer demand was not driving the so-called orders.

Tesla is probably getting closer and closer to saturating the market for its intended clientele and at that point, sales will sag. Because Tesla is a one-trick pony, their position is precarious.

This is why companies like Porsche will come in, scoop up the clientele, give them a much better engineered vehicle, and put Tesla out of business.

Tesla, SolarCity and SpaceX are just big ponzi schemes making Musk rich by using the environment as an excuse to sucker in investors.

It is quite clear why the news was buried over the weekend, a guidance downgrade is coming just like last year. Over promise to pump the stock then slowly roll back with excuses.

Tesla didn't invent crap. The original powertrain was purchased from a start up and the batteries are just commercial off the shelf run of the mill lithium cells with about a billion dollars worth of marketing put into them.

You notice nobody has taken up Tesla on its open patents? Because they're worthless.