Can Cadillac's CT6 Stack Up Favorably Against The S-Class And 7 Series?

Another "X is taking on the Germans" article. You know, the whole M-killer, 3-series-killer, S-Class-killer slant that is so played out.

I've read that stuff so many times that it, automatically triggers my recollection of history, and triggers an arguably cynical response of "Fat Chance" from me.

Tell ya what: If you want to kick BMW's or Mercedes' butt, instead of just talking about it, quietly DO IT, without the fanfare and "I'm gonna getcha" bravado. Succeed, and I'm sure the world will notice, and bestow their accolades upon you. Until that time, just do the best you can at being the best you can, and let the consuming public decide how you compare.

Here's the thing...Cadillac will never beat Mercedes at being Mercedes or BMW at being BMW.

There is something called brand appeal and heritage that manufacturers, especially luxury, spend decades building along with a culture/lifestyle. So while technology, innovation, and features are easier than ever to copy now, a brand's image, if built right, is nearly impossible to duplicate.

When Cadillac dumped it core values years ago in favor of German Chasers like the CTS, it began to lose the very thing it was known for, large, luxurious, chromed out sedans full of presence, technology, and unlike anything else on the road.

Now I see Cadillac as nothing more than a wanna-be Benz/Bimmer with Chevrolet/Buick underpinnings...get back to your roots Caddy, not everyone needs to have sharp driving dynamics or tech packed sedans, put out something that is unapologetically Cadillac with a design demanding road presence unlike anything else on the road

Yes - I have been saying that all along - Cadillac gave up BEING Cadillac - and tried to become another MB/BMW - but that is NOT what its customers want. Cadillac customers want the Escalade- a no excuses big luxurious monster - not smaller more nimbler cars with no room inside - VERY poor utilization of space- and small trunks too. As a result of DeNyscchen deciding what he want Cadillac to be rather than the customers doing that - they cannot sell in the USA - and they don't sell in Germany either.

However - WHen you get every Cadillac CT6 - Mercedes S class - and Bmw 7 Series - with a base price of under $56,000 - Cadillac will win the comparison EVERY time - since there is only one car in the test.

Typical Cadillac: great to drive, but overall too many shortcomings to truly be a compelling choice over competitors.

I say, typical European perspective. When America is great, they are less so, so they love it when we are weak. Are the Germans better than the CT-6, depends on what you're seeking. I read an article in The CT-6 is a great car, will the Euro-sissy's buy it, I doubt it, ever. They're just not going to buy American cars in volume thus GM has its own European line, Opel & Vauxhall. Cadillac regardless of how good they are, in this segment, I just don't see the volumes. Once the XT-3 and some of the more compact Cadillac models come out I could see them being more successful as the competition isn't all that strong and the price point will bring less discriminating tastes.

Here is an excerpt from AutoCar's review: http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/cadillac/cts-v/first-drives/2016-cadillac-ct6-platinum-review

Those looks ain’t to my tastes, but hell, at least it's distinctive and recognizable as a Cadillac, when in truth the brand has no real right or expectation to be recognised as anything at all here in Europe.

Let’s start with the good stuff. Although the Cadillac is no lighter than its rivals - This is simply false, so the reviewer is either ill-informed, or lying. Typical Euro-weenies....

xjug1987a wrotes "...They're just not going to buy American cars in volume..."

Keep in mind that Mercedes and BMW own a tiny share of the total car market, so it's arguable as to whether we can call them "volume manufacturers" in the sense that GM or Toyota are. And even though MB and BMW own a tiny share of the total market, they dominate luxury car sales worldwide, and in the US. Even *American* car buyers prefer an MB or BMW to a Cadillac (i.e., US sales of luxury cars are dominated by MB, BMW, and Audi). That says something.

So when you refer to "Euro-sissies" who prefer the European made brands, that includes the majority of American luxury car buyers! Hmmm. In *MY* mind, I don't see any American as a "Euro-sissy", but that's just me.

TheSteve: I've had 5 Mercedes, 1 Audi, 5 VW's, and my wife has had 3 BMWs and we've had one Cadillac. The Cadillac dealer experience was seriously substandard at the premium level and I'd have a hard time subjecting myself to them again. Once you buy the car the svc sux. That said, "I" like the Germans but my point was: will Germans or Euros in general buy a Cadillac? I say no I don't see it certainly in the short term especially at the S Class level.

Euro-sissies are folks that rely on America but then castigate us and criticize and I think the AutoCar article shows evidence of a preconceived perspective. The reviewer was not "completely" open minded when it was written. If for only he is clearly wrong about weight, the CT-6 weighs less than a 5 Series and an E Class, heck it weights slightly less than a CTS if I’m not mistaken, yet he says its comparable to the 7 & S.

Finally BMW and MB have always been exclusive and their marketing and diversification of their portfolios continues to grow their brands. However, BMW is riding its legacy and is no longer the sports sedan king they used to be. Same for Mercedes, regardless of how many cars they now sell, it absolutely is not the "cost is no object" engineering marvels they used to be. Mercedes was once compared to others in terms of quality of build vs how many sold. If one uses “sales numbers” then you’re talking volume not what makes their cars worth the price. Compare their cars to others and there is little difference even over some of the volume brands, except for their very high price tags and less content. Try to find a C Class with real leather you can’t unless it’s a special order, that should be std in a Mercedes. The new E comes only with a lame 4 cyl out of the C Class, well it actually IS a stretched C but reviewers say it’s a smaller S. If Cadillac brought out a “new CTS” but it used an engine directly from an ATS and only offered a 4 the reviewers would pronounce the effort weak at best. Bottom line is Europeans won’t but Cadillacs at this level, in big numbers, ever. Does anyone doubt that some Europeans are snobs? I mean seriously? And their cars aren’t really that much better especially for the money. Do I need to be clearer??

Yes, and you know why it's a "typical European perspective"? Because Cadillac continues to fall short of its European rivals. Seems perfectly logical to me. it will continue to be a "European perspective" until they can come up with a car to truly best, or at least meet, the others.

— xjug1987 It is not just German car buyers that are snobs - but virtually all the people who buy cars at this price level are as well. It is hard to justify the need for a car that costs in the $100,000 range - and the "panache" of owning exclusivity and the "best" are part of the deal.

I agree with TheSteve 2nd posting. The fact is it's not just European article reflecting European's sissy bias. The WORLD prefers MB's S the most, followed by the 7 and the 8. Cadillac is not on their radar screen nor is it in their mind (China being a slight exception but even then, their first choice is still the S, 7 and 8).

It also speaks volume when Cadillac itself is portraying its cars as competing versions of their MB, BMW and Audi models.

I feel for the angst and pain that devoted Americans display/express for their once-beloved brand but the battle has been already been won, multiple time over and in many different markets.

I didn't say the CT-6 was better than the S, clearly that car has a reputation for excellence, and it is exceptional. MB has spent decades building its reputation especially for its flagship and GM couldn't build a competitive car for decades (largely due to legacy costs). What I did say was Europeans won't buy American cars at this level. The CT-6 is a terrific car in terms of build engineering and innovation, engine line up, technology and value. That said it could be prettier and have a better name.

And a footnote from above: the 4 from the ATS IS in the CTS, but its rated at 270+ bhp where as the new E has what 240bhp. I think its buzzy and weak in the C let alone the E. The new E isn't THAT great of a new car over the predecessor its only 150lbs lighter so no real engineering achievements there. What MB is touting is its drivers aides. I don't buy a luxury car for the extra cost gizmo's. Is the base car a fine car and I say its really not any better than other cars, even some volume brand cars, it just happens to be a MB and an E.

The CT6 is a great car, but it does not have the styling panache it needs to compete stylistically. People who drive it, like it, but as soon as they see the CTS, they are confused because there simply isn't enough of a differentiation.

I also echo the sentiments that Cadillac needs to go back to being Cadillac and stop being German chasers.

That doesn't mean they need to make sloppy floaty boats, but vintage Cadillacs have an opulence that is readily apparent even now.

Cadillac need to do a Fleetwood and return to names overall.

I completely agree with you 100%. Cadillac needs to be its own with gorgeous styling and strong names.

Ditto. Cadillac more than all the other luxury brands has the potential to capture the young and the hip. Great names (Coupe deVille, Eldorado, etc) plus great heritage (big bold style, big power, bold colors and bigger than everything else on the road). Tie ins with movie stars, fashion and entertainers will reestablish "The Best in The World." The only thing it lacks is management with guts and confidence!

Cadillac could close up tomorrow and few if any would care. Same for Lincoln. Both GM and Ford should have kept different brands and axed these.

The problem with Cadillac is that they are owned by GM, and the reputation of that co. is the opposite of quality, luxury, performance or anything else positive.

Unfortunately for you, real-world evidence says the opposite.

Anyone buying any Cadillac best be warned they will actually be buying a Chevrolet with a Cadillac emblem.

A throaty 411-hp/400-torque, twin-turbo 3.0L V6. Capable of avg 28mpg. How is that disappointing?

And it's a brand new large car - not based on some other mainstream model. I'd take this over Lexus, Audi, Genesis...maybe M-B E-class. AWD, 4-wheel steering, Magnetic Ride are big pulls for me as well.