What Is It That Makes A Lexus, A Lexus?

More than a few people sneered at the RC/RCF for not being as track worthy as a BMW 4/M4, but they missed the point. The RC--ironically--is an old-school coupe and I happen to like it.

What Lexus is up to is providing styling like no other, speed and performance that is buttery rather than hard-edged, and a massive dose of reliability.

It's a formula that Cadillac ought to look into.

I cannot wait to get behind the wheel of the LC.

Cue the sneering Germanphiles....

The atrocious predator grille.

When Lexus first came on the scene, they offered Mercedes-like apparent luxury, noteworthy few initial defects, what would become legendary reliability, in a physical package that competed well with (then) MB's understated but stately styling, for a lot less coin than Mercedes. That's what Lexus became known for.

Today, Lexus is known known for their "quality" (lack of defects), a high level of apparent luxury, and for their polarizing (arguably hideous) styling. MDarringer's second paragraph nails it.

What makes a Lexus a Lexus is the fact that it is a reliable vehicle and a U.S.-only phenomenon that globally sells less than half as many cars as Mercedes-Benz, BMW and Audi.

Moderate luxury and ubber reliability in a different package that stands out in a sea of "me toos", well worth of a tied third place (with Audi) after Merc and BMW.

Audi still sells more than double what Lexus does globally and is widely considered to be more luxurious than BMW's interiors.

The main driving force for Lexus buyers is reliability. They still have a long way to go until they will be seen as the sports-luxury car of choice that they want to be. You can spin it any way you want, but until Lexus delivers engines that can match/beat their direct rivals, then they may continue to struggle in that respect.

Always coming up short.

A Lexus is a lexus since it is really a Toyota. Quite simple.

It used to be boring style and a lack of an engaging driving experience. Now, it's over the top styling, but the driving experience is the same.

And MB and BMW are moving toward the same driving experience. The only way to get a 3-Series that drives decently is to the the M-Sport package (for the appearance and suspension tweaks, not the M-Sport model) and then add the upgraded steering package - so about $5,000 of upgrades to make this "the ultimate driving machine" it should be out of the box. Sorry, I'll the IS 350 F-Sport with real leather, more fun to drive, and a "routine maintenance program that will add thousands to the price.

Lexus are great cars if you like soft sprung, ultra quiet and non-sporty handling. Lexus has been a huge hit in the US b/c that's who they targeted with their marketing. Their cars have always been reliable but there wasn't anything ground-breaking from them.
All the early Lexus' were more in common with the Olds 88's, Caddy D'villes and Lincoln Conti's from the late 80's at a higher price and made to challenge the Germans.
So their focus groups and marketing was BANG on!

Over time Mercedes and BMW have Lexusized their products. BMWs are nowhere near being the drivers' cars they used to be. In some ways the Cadillac ATS and CTS are more BMWlike than real BMWs.

Having had a German car and lived with two Toyota's long term as well as observing my own parents experience with a Lexus product, I would boldly say they represent the quality and reliability standard that all other products should be judged by. Hate if you want... but you would still be wrong...

Lexus is about attention to detail, lack of NVH and value. Styling is now cutting edge and performance to rival the germans.

Toyota/Lexus has schooled the industry in manufacturing and reliability. The German brands still struggle with reliability top to bottom.

Audi, BMW, and MB global sales have heavy dose of fleet sales and sub premium/sport models. The sales story is much different in the more even US market.

Audi, BMW and Mercedes-Benz have a much more diverse engine lineup than Lexus including small and efficient diesels. The German brands also have smaller vehicles such as the A3 and CLA. The smaller output engines and smaller vehicles are much better suited to European emissions standards and roads than what Lexus offers.

Yet Lexus is doing just fine.

Germannut, you keep trying to position Audi at the same level of BMW and Mercedes when that just can't be. You are right about the bigger engine lineup though, especially Mercedes.

Audi = German Mercury

Just as a data point, guys, after 18 years of owning several BMW, and loving them, I'm now on my first Audi (a Q5, 14 months, 17,000 miles in), and it's my favorite vehicle so far. Not a single squawk.

My BMWs were all good vehicles. My current car, and Audi Q5, is not a lesser vehicle, by any measure (except cost).

How is the Audi not the equivalent of MB or BMW? They are all roughly equal save for the fact that Audi includes routine maintenance for three years.
The A6 routinely beats the 5 Series and E Class in head-to-head comparison tests.

@Truthy Don't be such an idiot tool of a pointless human being. Audi relies on FWD architectures and Mercedes and BMW don't.

MDarringer wrote “…Audi relies on FWD architectures…”

The more accurate way to say this is that out all the vehicles offered by Audi, three of them (the A3, A4, and Q3) are offered with a front-wheel-drive drivetrain as a base offering, but ALL their vehicles are architected with Quattro (all-wheel drive) in mind, and Quattro is standard on all their vehicles, except for the 3 with a FWD base model.

That’s very different than alleging that Audi “relies on FWD architectures”.

Point is you are using your own subjective criteria (FWD vs. RWD) to define "luxury" a word which means, "the state of great comfort and extravagant living"

Performance Lexus models are a joke. Vehicles pieced together from existing bits and pieces that weigh too much, use an old engine design and are hideously styled.

It doesn't stand for anything, and it IS a gussied up Toyota. I guess you can still sell a bunch of cars doing that though.

It's funny seeing all these people talk about luxury based on price and front-wheel drive vs. rear-wheel drive architecture. In case you didn't know it, Audi doesn't perceive luxury based on price or on whether its cars are front-wheel or rear-wheel drive.

Luxury is a mindset that is created through innovation, design, technology and performance. Audi is a leader in all those areas and its sales results and comparison test results speaks for themselves.

I see you're bumping up on Heisenberg's meth again.

Then what is BMW becoming with its lower operating margins than Audi, collapsing sales in the U.S. and plastic interiors? Are you saying this is a race to the bottom where the German 3 will sell lower-priced vehicles to increase volume even if it means taking a hit to their operating margins?

Yes, there is truth to that, but that doesn't mean the cars aren't "luxury."

Luxury is defined as "the state of great comfort and extravagant living"

To see people warp the definition of a word for their own goals is amusing.

You can include price, drive architecture, engine size and any other category you can think of to define luxury, but that of course doesn't make it correct.

GermanNut, I don't dislike Audi (love the A7) but here you are at it again: "the German 3" in trying to tag Audi along with Merc and BMW when there's Porsche, and then, only then, there's Audi followed by Opel and Ford Germany. The fact that Audi uses less plastic than BMW, or that sales in China are HUGE are not reason enough for your subjective assertion.

"The fact that Audi uses less plastic than BMW, or that sales in China are HUGE are not reason enough for your subjective assertion."

If these aren't reasons enough for my subjective assertion, please provide facts to back up your subjective assertion below:

"Well worth of a tied third place (with Audi) after Merc and BMW."


You can't use sales (Audi was ahead of Mercedes-Benz globally last year), interior quality (routinely praised across all publications), technology (again praised with features like Virtual Cockpit, Google Maps, etc.), performance models (RS cars more than hold their own), price (the leases are more expensive than many comparable BMWs and the MSRP for newer models like A4 and Q7 are higher than comparable BMWs), reliability (ranked higher in Consumer Reports and J.D. Power dependability), income of buyers (higher on average than BMW).


Please, enlighten me with your facts. I'm waiting...

GermanNut, when I said in my first post "..[Lexus is] well worth of a tied third place (with Audi) after Merc and BMW." I was comparing Merc, BMW, Lexus and Audi in the USA.

In my more recent post, I am talking about the German car industry, where you continue to include Audi as part of the "German 3" -your own words!

Last time I checked, VW, Opel, Merc, and BMW sold more than Audi there.

Last time I checked, VW, Opel, and Merc sold more than Mercedes and Roll Royce. I don't feel that comparison is meaningful, however.

Ok, so now you are cherry picking individual countries to suit your own statement. What happens if you decided to cherry pick China, the largest passenger car market in the world? Which luxury brand sold the most in China?

We all know you sport a Hitler mustache and dream of the Fourth Reich.