EPA Claims That Fiat Chrysler Used Software To Cheat Emissions Testing

Your story SHOULD NOT show the Cummins logo as the engine in question IS NOT made by Cummins for FCA. The 3.0 referenced in the story is a FCA made engine.

-00J

According to reports from the UK government:

(1) ALL the diesels they tested (shortly after dieselgate) produced beyond lab-legal emissions, regardless of brand or model. They named GM, Mazda and BMW specifically.

(2) Virtually all of the gasoline vehicles they tested (shortly after dieselgate) produced beyond lab-legal emissions.

Other governments (e.g., South Korea) have confirmed the UK's findings through their own, independent testing.


If we accept this information as true then the conclusions we can come to are few:

1. The UK government's claims are a sham. Everyone is complying, except VW. Other agencies who support the UK government's findings are in collusion and conspiracy with the UK. (Their motives are unknown at this time).

2. The UK government's claims are accurate. Virtually every vehicle tested exceeds lab-legal emissions, though few might qualify as having a "cheat device" as defined by law, and therefore, they are not breaking the law even though they pollute as much as, or in some cases more than VW's "dirty diesels."

You get to choose what you believe.

BobM: Yeah :-(

You know all that "spiritual", woo-woo stuff about "we are one" and "we are all connected?" Well, if I'm a factory that dumps crap in a river and you live downstream, you start seeing our connection. We're becoming aware of this on a global scale. The US has been a horrific polluter for many decades, and is beginning to clean up its act. Meanwhile, we point at China and say "F*ck you dirty bastard! Clean up your act!" while they say "you had your turn at filthy prosperity; we want our turn."

So long as people don't think "what I do to you, I do to myself", so long as they embrace the principle of "I got mine, I'm doin' fine, so f*ck you, fend for yourself!", we'll keep seeing crap like this as a regular part of our lives.

It comes down to, did you follow the rules for a given country. The coverup is what will get them jail time.

Yes all diesels made more pollutants in real life driving vs testing, just as cars typically get worse milage in real life conditions vs epa tests. There are ways to design cars so that they do well on tests...this is not illegal. What VW did is illegal...they created software to sense and then change the parameters of the engine operation when being tested. It remains to be seen what FCA did...if they did what VW did they are fu#*ed as they don't have the cash to pay out fines/recalls.

malba2367: According to the UK government, and corroborated by others, virtually ALL vehicles sold, regardless of manufacturer, emit far more pollution in the real world than the lab-legal levels allow.

What Volkswagen did, is accomplish this same end in a way that conforms to the legal definition of a "cheat device."

If we had exactly the same result -- polluting VW diesels -- but VW accomplished it using a method that did NOT conform to the legal definition of a "cheat device," then there would be no Dieselgate, nobody would care otherwise, and we would not be having this pleasant discussion.

The VW Dieselgate scandal shows us that the result is unimportant (real-world air pollution), so long as you follow the process (don't use what the law defines as a "cheat device.") Personally, I think that's sad, but it is what it is.

On the plus side, this scandal has blown the lid off how the current emissions tests are virtually useless, other than in making people feel better *believing* their cars don't pollute (except for Dirty VWs). Consequently, shortly after Dieselgate erupted, the UK government came to the conclusions that they need to revise emissions test to more accurately reflect real world use.

Diesel just needs to die.

My view: Use whatever technology you want -- burn buffalo pies as fuel, if you want -- so long as you *legitimately* meet a meaningfully "clean(ish)" emissions standard while operating in the real world.

That way, if "dirty" diesel puts out the SAME emissions as a "clean" hybrid, we treat them the same, rather than always condemning one technology and always glorifying another, regardless of the facts.

Just my two cents worth.

Some clarification points from the Allpar site and Jeep forums:

"At FCA, the software does not detect testing; the violations listed by the EPA prevent engine damage and wear, and would probably have been no issue at all, if they had been disclosed in advance (except one, which the EPA claims was designed to cut diesel emissions fluid use).

The law clearly calls for full disclosure of any programs or devices that change the working of emissions systems, for any reason. The EPA did not say the eight issues they discovered were “defeat devices,” softening the blow.

The problem is likely the same as with the “recall scandal” — “sloppiness” within a company" "so far there is no clear intent to defraud"

NOTE: The law does allow operating adjustments to the emissions equipment to protect the engine in certain circumstances. It isn't clear what the limits to these are, hence there is difference of opinion between EPA engineers and FCA engineers as to what those limits are. FCA erred in not listing the limits they were using and how they handled them in their filings with the EPA.

The european makes were doing exactly what you say. In cold weather the DEF flow is reduced to protect the engine. From what I read in EU it is allowed to modify the emission control parameters to protect the engine and it is somewhat vague under what conditions this is allowable; this is why all the makes (excluding VW) have higher NOx emissions than allowed. I have not read what is allowable in this regard by the EPA.