What defines Tier I car companies?

who cares? what a worthless posting.

agreed.

ditto

Highend German and British cars and some American cars make up tier uno!

All the rest are lag wagons.

wow.. wow.. how could ferrari .. lambo etc sell more cars then lexus .. they dont produce that many.. come on will.. your starting to slip on your commentary :)

well my point "big boy" was cars sold in direct comparison with those produced. which would yield different percentages :)

Audi is a Tier 1 brand worlwide. Working on that here. Lexus is virtually unknown in the rest of the world, working on that.

A better title for this submission would be "I'm So Insecure About My Brand, I Must Regurgitate Annoying Stammerings In Order To Feel Better".

That is such a true statement! Hopefully GermanNut will get some security in himself/herself before he/she posts anything else.

Thats true of most of the Audiwagen drivers here....senseless posts to justify their purchase to the rest of the world.

Watch it Bimmerfan, you BMW people aren't all perfect yourselves.

I'm so sick of these posts and arguments, move on.

This has to be the stupidest posting yet. Lexus, Audi tier1?. you have to say Rangerover and Jag belong there before these two badge engineered cars. certainly small selling but high end brads actaully vault even higher..

Sales has nothing to do with it. Typically some of the attributes of Tier I are:

1. A certain amount of exclusivity (No year end clearance events)
2. A drive to make cutting edge innovations and advancements in technology that are typically adopted or copied by others. (IE: Bluetech, Quattro, X-Drive, TDI, FSI, DSG)
3. Association with other premium companies and events via alliances. (Prada, Calloway, Cartier, PGA) This maintains status and brand image.
4. The desire and ability to attract and maintain the best of the best for talent in mgmt and engineering.


Some Examples of Premium Makers:

Audi, Mercedes, BMW, Land Rover, Porsche

Notice that luxury or volume is not mentioned. This had been the definition of Tier 1 or Premium since the inception.

Tier II the main criteria is sales volume. Most of the designs and quality are excellent, however cost concerns or corporate policies (IE: Lexus) typically fail to make them cutting edge and are regulated to Tier II.

Lexus is hindered only by the adherence to Toyota’s kaizen.. It basically will keep them out of the Tier I. Unless Toyota relaxes the policy, they will never allocate funds to in appropriate proportions to become an innovator.

"Mercedes has their "Summer Sales Event" "Winter Sales Event" and so on. Those are the actual times when you can catch a Mercedes commercial on television."

We don’t have those clearance “Events” here in Dallas. Only Lexus has a corporate sponsored event twice a year that all dealers participate in. Effectively boosting sales at the cost of future resale via discounting.


"I fail to see how quattro, X-Drive, TDI, FSI DSG and others are copied by all else. Also, I guess this rules out Rolls Royce, Bentley, etc."

DSG has been picked up by no less than 6 makers. Quattro AWD “concept” has been implemented by over 30 makers. FSI and TDI technologies are currently copied across the board. Maybe you might want to look before you leap. Rolls and Bentley are excellent Marquees but fail to innovate. Name an innovation by Rolls for example?

"How many golf and tennis tournaments have you seen sponsored by Lexus? How many Vogue fashion shows have you seen hosted by Lexus?"

I agree that the brand association is there for Lexus, but that is only one part of the equation.

"The new LS460 and LS600h obviously was engineered and crafted by some of the most skilled and intelligent people in the world."

No doubt the LS series are fine cars, but other than adding a gear to an existing transmission design and having cosmetic “Crystal Look“ headlight they have only rehashed what is currently on the market and repackaged it.

Your generalizations do not coherently formulate a good measure of a "tier." Rolls Royce fails to make cutting edge due to BMW regulation. So in your own words they are "regulated" to a lower tier.

Rolls fails to innovate because they choose not to, they haven't done so for decades. BMW has nothing to do with it.

"I simply don't understand the last of this comment. Lexus is Tier 2 because they are backed by Toyota money? The richest of all car companies?"

Kaisen principal 8. Use only reliable, thoroughly tested technology that serves your
people and processes.

This rule by the very nature will never allow Toyota develop untested technology and market it. This is all that holds Lexus back In My Honest Opinion.

Plano: Just want to say that Lexus' have better resale values that MB.

I agree that a luxury brand should not incorporate Kaizen philosophies - because when a person buys a luxury car they aren't looking for a car with the same features as a economy car on the road. These people want a little more in their cars. Now I am not saying that Lexus doesn't have these features - they have the high end features, especially with the LS coming out - but I would like to see other Lexus' beat BMW or MB more often. There is a pretty good chance that this will happen in the future.

toyota is a smart company but stubborn company. Lexus has so much going for them. But to compete in the top arena without contributing to the status quo is very hard to do.

Kinda like building a new fighter jet based off the 1960's Phantom F4. Outstanding plane, but when compared to the current crop it would be shot down before it could even see the enemy.

PLANO! MY TEXAS BROTHER IS BACK! YES!

PS - Do you have your car serviced at Boardwalk?

Will, get a life. You're the age of my parents and I assume have a job, yet spend all your time on here defending your overrated Toyota.

The only reason Lexus is seen as Tier I in the US isi because they have greater visibility and street credibility than Audi. You'll hear about a Lexus in a rap song, or some other element of pop culture, before you hear about an Audi.

This increased visibility means increased brand awareness among the general public, and thus Lexus is perceived to be of higher status than it really is.

But the reality is that, with no V12 engine, no performance brand, no LWB version of a premium sedan (until now), and little innovation, Lexus is just not in the same league as Audi, BMW, and MB.

Most Lexus owners aren't even aware that they drive a Toyota, so I wouldn't expect them to be educated on this subject.

I dont see a puropse of this pose, it seems as if its solely didicated at making negative remarks towards Lexus..

Well, that's simply because Lexus is one of the most overrated cars in America right now. They really just aren't that impressive--the IS250 I drove screamed 'Toyota'.

Defining "Tier 1" has more to with branding and less to do with sales. A loose definition of Tier 1 = the top level of something.

But this definition aside - the general consensus is that Tier 1 = Mercedes, BMW and Lexus. Tier 2 = Saab, Acura, Volvo, Audi.

Problem is that Lexus outside USA won't be considered tier 1.
And Audi, now, won't be put in the same sentence with Saab and Volvo.

Audi is Tier I in some rankings and Tier II in others. It seems if it is a European ranking source then Audi is Tier I if it is outside Europe then it is Tier II by some accounts.

I guess is your glass 1/2 full or 1/2 empty?

What more can Lexus do in the eyes of the Euro-biased?
Sales are increasing in Europe and Asia
Innovations like performance hybrids, 8 speed transmissions, auto-parking, luxury crossovers,(plus lesser known innovations in the engine, manufacturing process, and design elements)
High performance models
Long wheelbase model
VDIM cut-off switches for better handling
The addition of diesels in dirty air loving Europe

The one are they havent moved on, that props up German car makers, is in selling pedestrain versions of their vehicles. Which, if anything, puts them above BMW, MBZ and Audi in this ridiculous Tier argument.

oh well yay lexus.
the thing i hate is when people say all german cars are crap and lexus will take over the world and obliterate all other cars. what makes lexus so special that they can take over the world?

The sole purpose of the whole article posted by the ignorant Germannut is to Try to prove that Audi is tier 1 and Lexus is not.
In real it's the other way round.

If u wil deduct the marks from Lexus just because of it's family links with TOYOTA(not a bad thing in real)
Then Audi also got the crappy VW with it.

In real
Tier1 is Lexus,MB and BMW
Tier2 is Audi,Acura,Jaguar

JUGNU

"The sole purpose of the whole article posted by the ignorant Germannut is to Try to prove that Audi is tier 1 and Lexus is not.
In real it's the other way round."

No, you're just an assumptive idiot. If you read his article at all, he stated that both Lexus and Audi were in Tier 1. This was by no means a shot at Lexus.

"If u wil deduct the marks from Lexus just because of it's family links with TOYOTA(not a bad thing in real)
Then Audi also got the crappy VW with it."

Wrong, again. VW has better engineering, better quality (define "quality"), more character, more style and overall just more innovative thinking than Toyota. Neither brands are bad to have as parent companies.

"In real
Tier1 is Lexus,MB and BMW
Tier2 is Audi,Acura,Jaguar"

Once again, you're wrong. Tier 1 consists of Audi, BMW, Jaguar, Lexus and Mercedes-Benz. Tier 2 is Acura, Infiniti, Saab and Volvo.

You all got wheeled in by Nut once again!

And I love the way Lexus owners compare their cars to BMW's and MB's. That argument is only valid in the US, because NO ONE in Europe compares Lexus to a Audi, BMW, or MB. Maybe a Volvo or Saab.

Okay, you're as ridiculous as logical!

You're giving Audi fans a bad name!

Look at PlanoA4, and how well his posts are executed. The same goes with chewy, and I hate to compliment myself, but *ME*!

cough-cough
you forgot someone s4....

Audi is tier 1. It has everything that tier 1 brands have. Lexus..um... mayb tier 1 since they r doing great ryt now. They still need to get rid of the toyota ifluence and they will b fine.