BMW Teases 600 HP M5 Ahead Of Frankfurt Debut - Who Will Be Left In The Rearview Mirror?

Wow, are all BMW designers this lazy? It looks EXACTLY like the previous M5! This is why BMW is losing sales to Audi. BMW really needs to rethink its design strategy. With such a stale appearance, the M5 is dead on arrival!

Moving to AWD to compete with the famed RS6 is a wise choice. Unfortunately, Audi's famous Haldex AWD has always been the industry leader in both performance and reliability, and will certainly make the RS6 a better driver's car!

Audi sales are down globally this year and BMW sales are up globally. Audi fans are the last to complain about stale styling.

Oh, and top off your stupidity the RS6 does not use a Haldex AWD system. Haldex is used smaller Audi models like the A3. I thought you were an Audi fan? Or is this because they don't have google in China?

One more time, still 4th in the US and still 3rd globally. Trying to stay afloat, so it's the only one of the 3 major German brands that is looking dead in the water.

Audi ant so great, one design fits all, minor styling changes over the years. More importantly for a performance sedan they all have a high polar moment of inertia. When you position most of the engine weight in front of the front axLe it is not helpful to handling. They do a good job of masking it with AWD though. Secondly they don't have great weight distribution (obviously the R8 excepted which is in a different league). Between the two it certainly makes BMW the easier to tweak for speed.

Unfortunately, this is proof of why BMW is no longer #1. Instead of setting the benchmarks, they are following others' leads. The CTS-V was introduced almost 2 years ago with 640hp. The E63S is coming out this year with 604hp. The RS7 was upgraded a year ago to over 600hp. By the time the M5 is officially introduced for production, those three aforementioned cars may all already be upgraded to higher hp.

Yeah, total proof. E63s launches a month ago with 604HP and BMW will launch an M5 this year with a, not yet confirmed, number around 600HP. Dammit BMW, this is why! It all boils down to this, 4HP difference in output from a car not even launched yet. Why we have we all been so blind? 4HP

The upcoming BMW M5 illustrates perfectly why BMW has fallen so far behind Mercedes-Benz both in the U.S. and globally.

First, the new M5 will barely have enough horsepower to keep up with its competitors. 600 horsepower won't give it enough horsepower to leave any of its direct competitors in the rear-view mirror considering they all offer as much horsepower or more.

Second, the M5's AWD system won't give it an advantage considering its competitors have made their AMG and RS offerings with AWD for several years.

Third, the styling will be almost indistinguishable from the current M5. Why would buyers shell out over $100K for a new M5 when 99% of people can't even tell the difference between the current M5 and the new M5?

Fourth, BMW will promise Ultimate Driving Machine driving dynamics and offer a car void of feedback. This is the biggest downfall for BMW. The company brands itself as a luxury car with sports car driving dynamics but its dynamics don't match up.

Fifth, the interior will be typical BMW, that is so say cheap, gimmicky and far less luxurious both visually and materials wise than the E63 and Audi RS6.

Unless the exterior styling, driving dynamics and interior quality/visual appeal are improved across BMW's entire product range, BMW will continue to fall further behind Mercedes-Benz. Buyers will not tolerate BMW's failure to deliver on its promises and will instead go to Mercedes-Benz which has grown at more than twice the rate of BMW globally last year and into 2017.

If has nothing to do with the hp difference, genius. It's about who is establishing the benchmarks.

You missed this part of my comment:

"Fourth, BMW will promise Ultimate Driving Machine driving dynamics and offer a car void of feedback. This is the biggest downfall for BMW. The company brands itself as a luxury car with sports car driving dynamics but its dynamics don't match up."

BMW promises Ultimate Diving Machine handling and feedback but the M5 will likely come up short just like how the new 540i finished second to last in a C&D comparison test behind the Audi A6 due to its poor feedback.

It is this lack of feedback, exterior design that is indistinguishable from one generation to the next and the interiors that come up short that have cost BMW dearly in the United States and globally.

The next RS6 and E63 AMG S will be the kings of this segment.

Shame, Audi and Merc fan boys getting their panties in a twist.

@cidflekken I'm confused, you specifically cited horsepower as a benchmark and now you're saying it's not about HP it's about benchmarks? Geez buddy, I got nothing there. Genius.

@GermanNut I know things are tough for Audi right now so you're just venting, about a car that hasn't been launched yet, so all you "it will be" statements is just you wishing and hoping that something will change in Audi's favour. It's a sad way of thinking but I think we all know your comments are a bit of a joke.

Just one thing I will point out though, to again highlight how delusional you are and why you should find some help. You wrote an entire article recently about a Car & Driver comparison with the new 5-series, citing the article as proof BMW is losing it's way etc.

That exact same article says the BMW has the most luxurious interior and that the Audi has an interior that is mid-way in the comparison, keep in mind that the A6 has been on the market for 5 year so has been refreshed and still at least 2 years away from being replaced.

So the same source you used contradicts your statement, you post in on here, together with other sources that says BMW interiors are great but you keep mentioning that they don't hoping someone will think you're right. Stick to the facts otherwise you'll continue to be discredited. I don't now how many times I have to call you out? But it is entertaining so carry on I suppose.

From MotorTrend:

"Our staff had mixed opinions of the gesture control technology. Many of the gestures are admittedly redundant, and we found out it is much quicker to use traditional buttons on the console or steering wheel rather than try to target the gesture sensors and wait for the car to respond. “Unnecessary; tech for tech’s sake,” senior features editor Jonny Lieberman noted. Associate editor Christian Seabaugh was equally unimpressed. “This is stuff the dealer shows you to wow you into a purchase or stuff you show your buddies at a country club to show off,” he said."

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/bmw/7-series/2016/2016-bmw-750i-xdrive-first-test/

Again, it's the gimmicky nonsense. Yes, it's a 7-Series but it speaks to BMW's larger interior issues. This is not an old car either, but rather BMW's latest attempt at tackling the S-Class.

Regarding the 3-Series: "

The aging F30 3 Series, not due for replacement for another two years, is indeed showing its age. Sure, there’s something positive to be said and even a little comfort knowing exactly where things are and how they have operated since 1998. To wit, the headlight controller is unchanged. Resetting the trip meter with a single press of the black rectangle on the instrument panel remains. The push-button trunk release is still at our left shin, and there’s still a manual e-brake lever between the two front seats. Familiarity and intuitive operation is a really good thing. Yet our drivers lamented the lack of a height adjustable seatbelt anchor. We all thought the main touch point, the Sport Line-spec leather steering wheel, felt inexpensive and down market."

There you have it, BMW's interiors are cheap and its driving dynamics come up short. When you brand yourself as the Ultimate Driving Machine in the luxury segment and offer cars void of feedback and that feeling of being connected to the road with interiors that don't do enough - you lose. BMW is learning this important lesson right now.

Wow GermanNut, so no response on the Car & Driver article then? Nothing. Instead now we're switching publications because you're scrambling to find anything you can. What makes Motor Trend more of an authority that C&D?

Plus I have to say, what you found here is a comment about a steering wheel from a particular spec feeling downmarket and that's your defense? From the 3 series that was launched 6 years ago. Tell you what, I'll stay on point, these 2 comments are from Motor Trend reviews in 2017 and I'll also stick to the 540i as well:

"the highly functional iDrive 6.0, gesture control, and a generous overhaul with quality cabin materials, the substantially more fanciful G30 cabin will be a major contributor to positive acclaim" and "The total package is one that impresses. The G30 continues to stress the luxury aspect of the experience" Ooopsie

I never said anything about your "gimmicky comments" but since you're bringing that into the fray now that we've established you can't find proof for your "quality" comment. When iDrive was launched it was also deemed gimmicky and the MMI system is a blatant copy of thet "gimmicky" system. Audi has never even tried to hide it. So maybe gimmicky isn't all that bad :)

Driving dynamics, yes, there are sharper handling cars but at least the brand has a history of something. Something to base their tagline or motto on, you know? Like Audi has "Truth in Engineering" oh, wait...

Have to say though, I really thought you would come up with a better response to this. Regardless, thanks for taking the time to respond to me responding etc.

It's not just the steering wheel:

"Even the optional Anthracite wood trim with pearl-effect looked and felt like they came out of a car from a generation ago. “It’s very hard for me to believe this car just underwent a refresh,” Nishimoto said. “It feels like the exact same car from five years ago. The exterior has held up OK, but the interior is showing its age.”

We can argue about the publications but I'll give you one challenge: Find me a review that describes the C-Class, A4 or S-Class interiors as "cheap" or "gimmicky". Good luck ;-)

The quote you provided does not say anything about cheap or gimmicky? Are you sober right now?

And I'm still waiting for why Car & Driver and Motor Trend are, in your opinion, wrong about calling a BMW interior luxurious. The publications you chose not me. I'll wait here :)

BMW's interiors are simply a letdown. Whether its cheap materials, outdated design, way too expensive options or unnecessarily complicated technology features that are difficult to use:

BMW 3-Series: "“It’s very hard for me to believe this car just underwent a refresh,” Nishimoto said. “It feels like the exact same car from five years ago. The exterior has held up OK, but the interior is showing its age.”"



BMW 4-Series: "And, as beautifully turned out as the 435i’s interior is, it’s surprising what $57,225 doesn’t get you. We had a $16,890 Mitsubishi Mirage in the office immediately prior to this comparison test, and we found ourselves marveling at what the Mitsu had that the BMW didn’t: navigation, Bluetooth audio, a backup camera. These things may not be necessities in life, but they are awfully close to necessities in a $57,225 car. "

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2014-bmw-435i-page-2

BMW 7-Series:

"Our staff had mixed opinions of the gesture control technology. Many of the gestures are admittedly redundant, and we found out it is much quicker to use traditional buttons on the console or steering wheel rather than try to target the gesture sensors and wait for the car to respond. “Unnecessary; tech for tech’s sake,” senior features editor Jonny Lieberman noted. Associate editor Christian Seabaugh was equally unimpressed. “This is stuff the dealer shows you to wow you into a purchase or stuff you show your buddies at a country club to show off,” he said."

BMW X5: "New for 2014, the X5 suffers from premature aging. Inside, the dour black interior is uninspired, dull, and dated. This looks like a $50,000 SUV, not one pushing $70,000. Displays in the gauge cluster, head-up unit, and center screen lack the clarity and sophistication of the ones in the Volvo and Audi. The LED lighting in the doors and instrument panel appears to be an afterthought. BMW’s analog gauges, though, are a welcome bit of timeless style."

There are so many problems across BMW's product range. I'd say most pressing of all are the lack of exterior design changes and lack of Ultimate Driving Machine driving dynamics. Also troubling is that even in BMW's newest interiors like the 7-Series it just doesn't match the competition's. Sure the 5-Series may have a decent interior, but it's driving dynamics are again a let down.

Providing the driving dynamics but poor interiors or vice-versa simply isn't good enough when you label yourself the Ultimate Driving Machine and compete in the LUXURY segment.

No wonder then that BMW is getting lapped in the United States and globally by Mercedes-Benz in sales with Mercedes-Benz firmly stepping on the accelerator and leaving BMW far in the dust. Growing at a rate twice that of BMW globally and positive performance YTD in the U.S. market, Mercedes-Benz is taking the lead.

If Audi's China numbers weren't as bad, it too would likely be outpacing BMW given Audi's success in the U.S.

Still waiting for an answer as to why they 2 publications you quoted contradict your statements

It's not about horsepower figures but performance and driveability.

Cadillac will undercut the BMW on price while offering comparable or better performance at the cost of CUE and resell.

Mercedes will cost more, have more power, sound better but will have "dead-eyes"/"dead-fish" like steering and a $25k performance pack that adds a 20hp tune and half a set of carbon ceramic brakes.

Audi will match on horsepower, beat on interior and exterior design, fall behind on steering and chassis dynamics but will be a better/more comfortable GT.

I wonder how many potential buyers actually cross shop these models. Or is it like beer or pick up trucks. I am an AMG guy, a RS guy or an M guy and that is that. 4,000lbs and 500+ hp is very quick. 600hp+ is likely unusable on the street. You just have to hit your brakes quicker or use even less throttle. Any will give you a satisfying surge in power as you come to the end of the HWY on-ramp and accelerate to equal the speed of traffic.

With "driving nannies" standard, these cars will be as easy to drive as a four door "golf cart".

Drivers thinking they, or their German machine, will somehow break the laws of physics are consequences that come with any vehicle/machine.