Surprise, Surprise! Genesis Is Getting 30% Of It's Conquests From ..... Lexus

So people who have no taste or interest in style are going from Lexus to Hyundai. Shocker.

I knew this was the case when Lexus saw dramatic drops in the ES sedan sales, the Genesis and even Sonata are big on everything Lexus offers, and dare i say the driving dynamics are just as good if not better than that of the ES which happens to be a posh Camry

Not surprising. They will get most sales from Lexus and the rest will be made from Acura, Buick, and Lincoln.

It makes sense. Lexus sedans are outdated and don't offer good value at the moment. They also appeal to the same kind of customers.

I'm surprised BMW is second though. German buyers tend to care about the badge. I had expected Acura, Lincoln etc.

I assume you mean "buyers of German-branded cars" rather than buyers who are German.

People not in the sales industry say a lot of things as if it were truth: "German buyers tend to care about the badge."

Market research shows the opposite. Buyers of premium vehicles are surprisingly fickle. They tend to jump to whatever is trendy and different. This is why BMW is floundering.

The Continental has taken some sales away from the Germans (based on trade-in data) and that is likely due to styling and the trendiness of owning the new thing.

Buyers also like upstarts and will give them a shot. As long as Tesla can keep up its "upstart" image it will continue to draw premium sales.

Genesis is definitely a upstart and buyers are giving it a shot. Although stylistically the Genesis sedans are pleasant but unimaginative, they are nevertheless reasonably premium for near-premium money.

Buick and Acura would do well to have products as great as the G80 and the G90. The G80 is a good reason not to buy a Lacrosse or a TLX, and the G90 is a hands-down reason not to buy an RLX.

The Genesis plan of starting small and making each customer happy is working well. The stand-alone dealers will happen once the G70 and the crossovers come into the mix.

Yeah, I guess you are right about them bring fickle. Tesla and Volvo are great examples.

Matt - I really do not believe that Buyers of REAL premium Vehicles tend to what is trendy and different - I believe they are in for the Prestige.

However - when Lexus first came out - they were the choice of the people looking for a lower priced alternative - which fueled their sales - but ultimately they sold lower tier cars mostly (The Rx and the ES). Since they were already buying them for lower price - the Genesis is also in that - second tier luxury level(With Lincoln, Buick, Audi, Volvo, DS,and once Chrysler) - however producing a better car than the ES is. However - real TOP end Premium Buyers (S class, Rolls, Bentley) - never actually considered buying a "cheaper" alternative because they were not in it for the money - they wanted the recognition.They certainly cannot GLOAT about buying a Korean car - anymore than they would gloat about buying store brand Ketchup.

@TomM and once again your "belief" is trumped by demographic market research.

Okay Matt - Tell us the actual Research Study - and provide a copy of the actual documents - ie- set of questions asked by the researchers.

The actual fact is = buyers of TRUE premium Vehicles - Mercedes S class - Bentley - Rolls - - are amazingly loyal to their cars and rarely buy other brands.
In addition - even among the small sports sedans - which are NOT premium vehicles - the numbers are fairly constant as well.

Now - when you get to the second tier - Buicks, Audi's, Volvo, Alfa, Lincoln, DS - and others - you do get people moving around more often - but while researchers often include these cars - and things like the BMW 3 series - and the Mercedes C lass - and EVEN the Lexus ES as premium cars - they are not. Most of these cars - are simply fancier versions of lower cars made by the same manufacturer - and would NEVER be considered premium by the true elite.

@TomM time to take your old-age pill.

Why does it surprise you that car companies do demographic research on sales?

Why does it surprise you that the findings are communicated to dealers?

Why do you think YOUR OPINION is ACTUAL FACT?

Why do you NOT get that the brands most often referred to as "premium" are Porsche, Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Maserati, and Lexus and possibly Cadillac and Infiniti?

You're not interested in facts. You're too invested in being an old man who pontificates his used-to-be musings.

Lol, when Merc fanboys think an S-class is in the same realm as a Bentley or Rolls-Royce. Believe me, if "prestige" is your only goal you would never forgo walking into a Bentley or RR dealership to instead buy a car in the same place other people are buying $30k CLAs.

Certainly not surprising in the least. A lot of these Lexus buyers were probably conquest sales from BMW and Mercedes to begin with. They are fluid buyers who aren't loyal to a specific brand and/or are wanting to try the next best thing to come along. BMW and Mercedes tend to have the strongest loyalty (I don't know raw numbers of repeat buyers, just going by personal knowledge and/or experience).

@Aspergers11 You're obsessing again. Take your meds.

70% from germans ?

History repeats itself. Lexus did the same back then and the Chinese will do it to the Koreans.

Agreed

I like how we're talking a "brand" when there are only 2 vehicles in the line up and, in reality, only the G80 moves units. Who is buying the G90?

Interesting stats but sales are stagnant for this "brand" and they need a SUV asap. Hyundai is in it's own sales gloom atm in the US and other markets so it will be interesting to see what happens but will be years before they get to Infiniti / Acura levels of sales / recognition and that's not exactly shooting for the sky.

Two SUVs and a small sedan are coming.

Buyers of the G90 have been--so far--mostly Genesis buyers moving up and some mid-sized German sedan defectors.

The fact that Genesis sedan owners are buying G90s is a very good thing for the new brand.

I find the whole Genesis situation interesting, particularly starting a whole new brand from scratch. The lessons other company's like Lexus have learned can be applied immediately for example. And also looking at mistakes from companies like Jaguar, who went bankrupt and stayed minuscule because they kept trying to build 911 rivals, or build big saloons instead of going for compact sedans / crossovers, which is what sells.

If Genesis can bring in 2 SUVs crossovers in the X3/ X5 - GLC/GLE space and fix the way their interiors look then they have a chance. Powertrains are the other issue. I know Hyuandai / Kia don't have a big EV seller yet, Ioniq will get there I think, but if they had a compact EV sedan or crossover by the time the Model 3 comes out or the 3-series has a pure EV then that would cement them in the minds of a number of demographics, instead of just the middle-class older generation males that the cars seemed to be aimed at atm. They have a pretty big opportunity here with the right products.

The genesis of Genesis is interesting. Hyundai/Kia wanted into the market and designed what would become the Genesis sedan which was to have been introduced as a brand. Then when Ford put Jaguar up for sale, Hyundai came very close to buying Jaguar, but at the last minute pulled back. However just as the launch of the Genesis brand was to happen, the recession dawned and Hyundai decided to make the sedan a Hyundai Genesis rather than a Genesis Something. All through this there is prudence at every step.

The Genesis, Equus, and K900 were all competent, reliable vehicles even if they were more "Buick" than "Mercedes", but customer satisfaction was excellent.

When the new Genesis sedan (now G80) came, Genesis owners traded in as did owners of the Equus and K900. Getting repeat customers is essential and so far they are nailing it.

The current plan is to move to dedicated dealers when the G70 and the two crossovers come to market, but the plan to have Genesis be a brand inside Hyundai dealers has been prudent as well because dealerships were retrained on how to treat customers with premium expectations and many dealers just made it their de facto stance.

With FCA careening for implosion, Hyundai-Kia could easily buy Jeep and Ram because they need those brands, but they could also grab Maserati and Alfa-Romeo. I mean if Maseratis can be Chrysler 300s under the metal and Alfa-Romeos can be mongrelized versions of the LX, they can just as easily be Genesis based.

Hyundai's careful, painstaking approach simply means they have a plan.

I disagree about FCA, in the very least because brands like Jeep are doing well and Fiat does really well in other markets so globally they are not in crisis. I think the Chrysler brand is in trouble however, particularly in the States, I also don't think FCA would ever sell Maserati or AR.

Well, "painstaking" better get a move on and better come up with something that looks more exciting than what they've done so far. The 3 German brands can afford to be conservative with their styling, which is why they all are. A new brand needs to stand out and both the current vehicles from Genesis look old or generic or both.

Last thing I will add is, while there may be more of a "counterfeit" appreciation or culture in the East, things like the Bentley-esque badging is off-putting to me and will be to a lot of customers in Western markets. They should be more authentic. But they are still learning.

@Firewombat FCA is in deep caca.

The Dart and 200 were expensive failures.

The Cherokee's sales are getting soft so money is going onto the hood to prop up sales.

The launch of the Giulia has been botched by dumb marketing and a product that has glaring build quality and reliability issues all of which result in dead-on-arrival sales.

All of Dodge's products are old with no new product in sight.

Chrysler is down to two models both with poor sales. The Pacifica has not lit up sales like it should have.

Maserati has old products with nothing new on the horizon.

Jeep has new product, but important products like a new Grand Cherokee and a Wagoneer are delayed and pushed back.

Ram is doing well with thousands of dollars on the hood.

The real test of FCA will be the new Wrangler and the new Ram, but if they are as carelessly done as the Dart, 200, and Giulia, FCA will be taking ut up the poop chute.

Bit dramatic but you're basically saying what I said. Chrysler is in trouble, Jeep is fine, smaller models in the Jeep line-up are selling well too, globally not just in the US. The Italian brands were never going to be big sellers or take major market share, they don't even do that in Europe besides Fiat and a lot of its sales basically come from the 500 or models based on it.

I wouldn't consider buying most of Maserati's current products but the line-up is pretty new, Ghibli and Quattroporte are still pre-facelift and Levante is brand new so that's 3 out of 4 models. If I'm not mistaken the Ram outsells the Silverado so not a bad showing at 2nd place behind the F150.

They have problems but most car makers do, Hyandai / Kia / Genesis included.

@Firewombat

Not dramatic at all. FCA has virtually no success outside of Jeep and Ram. That is not a sustainable business model.

The lineup of current Maseratis is NOT "pretty new". Pretty and old under the skin is more accurate.

Yip, SUV and Truck sales are where all mainstream brands are finding sales growth, not just FCA. And I didn't say "pretty new", I said brand new.

Irrelevant point.

Maybe some of conquest sales are from consumers that appreciate competition & want to try something new that seems to match-up well against the other premium brands.

Maybe the conquest buyers have had bad dealer/vehicle experiences & just want to get into something different. All this talk of "loyalty" is purely opinion & completely subjective. A Genesis owner may want a MB or Audi a few years from now.

The days of only buying a single brand is seriously outdated, i think. If you have the coin, all these brands are on the shopping list. Buy what you want to drive.

Bingo.

My brother-in-law was driving a Mercedes E Class that was nothing but down time at the dealer for him, so he got a first-generation Genesis as his back-up car and loved it. He let the Mercedes go and traded up when the new Genesis sedan showed up.

Similarly, his father--a diehard S Class owner--leased an Equus as a folly and loved it. He now has a G90 parked next to his S Class.

For them, what's different is reliability. Genesis is simply more reliable.

The Mercedes dealer is more posh, but the Hyundai/Genesis dealer pickup their cars for servicing pretty much like Mercedes sometimes does. Need an oil change? A flatbed shows up, drops off a Genesis loaner and picks up their cars for servicing.

Granted, the dealer has Accents and G90s on the same lot--though not next to each other--and the show room is divided.