YIKES! Chevy Bolt Battery Pack Replacement Is Half The Cost Of The Car

From the article, this says it all: "[if] anything goes wrong, it'll be the next owner's problem. "

Ain't it the same attitude we treat everything these days ??

Now that battery replacement cost is becoming known, we begin to understand why EV resale value is in the toilet. The big unknown is how long can a consumer "reasonably" expect the batteries to last? The warranty covers them for 8 years/100,000 miles or 10 years/150,000 miles, depending on the state[1], but that's just warranty coverage and not the expected lifespan.

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[1] Article does not state what "warranty coverage" means -- replacement at zero cost or prorated) with new (or "reconditioned") batteries?

So far, batteries have been far more reliable than anyone expected. Range loss for Tesla's is around 1% a year, and less than 0.1% of batteries have had to be replaced. There were major issues with early Nissan Leaf batteries, but that has been fixed with current generations.

If you have a car with 200+ miles of range, you are likely to still have 200+ miles of range after 8 years.

As for the warranty, it depends on the company but Tesla replaces the battery with one that meets the minimum expectations for the number of miles driven. Sometimes it is a brand new battery, but not always. It happened so rarely there is not much data outside of Tesla forums.

Exactly why is this being downvoted? Simply stating the facts that are available.

In my opinion, if EV manufacturers want to eliminate unfounded consumer fears about the batteries, they should:

1) Warranty the battery with a zero-to-consumer cost, no-deductible.

2) State how long the warranty applies (years and miles). The ideal (and possibly unreasonable) period is "for long as you own your car."

3) State how performance will degrade over time (e.g., same acceleration and top speed, same recharge time, but a 1% (compounded) range reduction per year).

4) State the conditions under which the warranty is voided.

5) Make the warranty fully transferable to subsequent owners.

If this is what EV makers are already doing, then it's not enough because the conclusion prospective buyers are coming to is: After 10 years of ownership or 150,000 miles of driving (whichever comes first), I'm exposed to a $15,000 bill for new batteries, assuming I can still get them. FYI, the last time I checked, the average age of a car on the road in the USA is 11 years.

Lease. Don't buy.

Are there any ICE motors that are warrantied for 11.4 years? The Toyota Powertrain Warranty is 60 months/60,000 miles. If you need to replace a whole engine, the cost is likely going to be quite expensive as well. You are a lot more likely to need replace an engine than a battery... unless you want to upgrade to a better battery.

SanJoseDriver wrote “…Are there any ICE motors that are warrantied for 11.4 years?…”

Not that I’m aware of. However, ICE has earned a reputation for easily lasting as long as you own the car, even for subsequent owners. It’s not common to think, “how old is the engine, ‘cuz it’ll need to be replaced at the 12-year mark, and that’ll cost me $15,000.” ICE has a well-earned reputation for lasting a long time if properly maintained.

At this time, EV batteries don’t have that same “last forever” reputation. They also don’t have a bad “fail after 5 years” reputation. We don’t have reason to believe that EV batteries will last forever because there aren’t enough EVs in service long enough to give EV batteries the same longevity reputation that ICE enjoys.

I *speculate* that in a decade’s time, as EVs become more popular and there are more old EVs around, it *might* become common knowledge that EV batteries are a non-event for as long as someone owns the car. But until circumstances like these arise, lack of “proof positive” – i.e., “the unknown – will give prospective consumers a reason to be concerned about the cost of replacing super-expensive EV batteries.

BTW, Tesla’s Model S got bad publicity when it was discovered that about 2/3 of the units made had to have their drivetrain replaced after about only 60,000 miles. Tesla replaced the parts under warranty (good), but that gave prospective EV consumers concerns about the true operating cost of a “zero maintenance cost” EV.

Although EVs have wonderful promises about no maintenance and low operating costs, real-world numbers paint a different picture at this time.

The Tesla warranty hits most of those points. 8 years, unlimited miles, no-cost replacement, fully-transferable to new owners, only intentional damage voids warranty (even accidents are covered). What about 8 years from now...

1.) 60 KWh will cost $5k or less to manufacture and will weight less than today (more range, better performance). Even with a 50% margin, you are looking at $8k or less for a brand new battery... or you can pay a bit more for an upgrade.

2.) There may be a market for used batteries from people upgrading their cars. I could see these costing $4-5k or less.

3.) Cars are going to evolve much faster than in previous decades, you will probably want a new car in less than 11 years. Perhaps you will ditch the car altogether and go on-demand with autonomous car sharing.

4.) The worst case scenario is not that the battery will just stop working, but that the range will be gimped. Let's say today's ~250 mile car gets reduced all the way down to ~150 miles. That will still make a perfectly acceptable car for local driving. My Tesla has 130 miles of range and it is more than enough to get around the whole Bay Area. It is not like a ICE where it will just die at some point, it is a slow degradation.

Worst-case scenario: Your EV battery fails out of warranty and you have to replace it out of pocket, so it's either a $15,000 repair (or more), or your car becomes a garage ornament (or you can try to sell a non-working EV on eBay for a song). This is something that could keep EV prospects away when "trust me, it'll be fine" just doesn't cut it.

There is a market for used batteries.

When the batteries are not usable for the demands of a vehicle, the battery still has life in it for less taxing applications.

It is my understanding that people who go solar to the point of not relying of a power company can use Prius batteries to store electricity generated by solar panels.

I don't know how that works specifically but it was told to me.

My home and chop shops are as solar as they can be, but my power goes into the grid as a credit and is not used directly.

It is super unlikely that the battery will just die, there are thousands of cells in there. You wouldn't NEED to replace it after 8 years even if you got unlucky with degradation, it would still be a decent commuter car with low range. When an engine goes, it's gone... but a battery dies a very slow death and can be used for other applications as well like MD mentioned.

SanJoseDriver: When I buy a product, I look at the warranty. That tells me what I am *truly* up against (assuming the folks doing the warranty work are honorable). I don't pay any attention to salespeople who claim, "don't worry, it never happens. It's super unlikely." I consider that "sales bluster."

I also would not be enthused by the prospect of an out-of-warranty EV battery that's no longer suitable for its intended purposes, having to pay $15,000 or more ASAP to get my EV back to ship-shape, but knowing that I *might* get some money (unknown amount) for by old, defective battery... assuming I can find a buyer, having to negotiate the price, take care of the shipping, etc. I don't care for that PITA.

Perhaps when EVs have a long and positive history behind them, and EVs routinely run 15 years and 400,000 miles without any meaningful impact to their batteries, then potential consumers will view the battery life issue as a non-issue. Until that day comes, it's a different story.

You don't think 8 years, unlimited miles, is a great warranty?

SanJoseDriver wrote "You don't think 8 years, unlimited miles, is a great warranty?"

The average car on the road in the US is 11.4 years old, and aging. After 8 years, the owner (or prospective buyer) is exposed to a $15,000 (or more?) battery replacement risk. Until EV batteries have earned a reputation for being a non-event, regardless of the car's age or miles, I refer to my original points made in my post on 6/12/2017 2:20:28 PM.

Are there any ICE motors that are warrantied for 11.4 years? The Toyota Powertrain Warranty is 60 months/60,000 miles. If you need to replace a whole engine, the cost is likely going to be quite expensive as well. You are a lot more likely to need replace an engine than a battery... unless you want to upgrade to a better battery.

SanJoseDriver wrote “…Are there any ICE motors that are warrantied for 11.4 years?…”

Not that I’m aware of. However, ICE has earned a reputation for easily lasting as long as you own the car, even for subsequent owners. It’s not common to think, “how old is the engine, ‘cuz it’ll need to be replaced at the 12-year mark, and that’ll cost me $15,000.” ICE has a well-earned reputation for lasting a long time if properly maintained.

At this time, EV batteries don’t have that same “last forever” reputation. They also don’t have a bad “fail after 5 years” reputation. We don’t have reason to believe that EV batteries will last forever because there aren’t enough EVs in service long enough to give EV batteries the same longevity reputation that ICE enjoys.

I *speculate* that in a decade’s time, as EVs become more popular and there are more old EVs around, it *might* become common knowledge that EV batteries are a non-event for as long as someone owns the car. But until circumstances like these arise, lack of “proof positive” – i.e., “the unknown – will give prospective consumers a reason to be concerned about the cost of replacing super-expensive EV batteries.

We are close to 10 years on the Tesla Roadster (with way older battery tech), and there have been no mass reports of battery failures. Here is an article with some degradation stats: https://electrek.co/2016/11/01/tesla-battery-degradation/

Agree it will take a while to build trust, but the tech is already good enough for the mass market.

And Sears will cover those Die Hards that Elon dumped into the Lotus.