TESLA.... another Enthanol boondoogle at the Taxpayers expense

Huge hopes have been tied to electric cars as the solution to automotive CO2 climate problem. But it turns out the the electric car batteries are eco-villains in the production process of creating them. Several tons of carbon dioxide has been emitted, even before the batteries leave the factory.

IVL Swedish Environmental Research Institute was commissioned by the Swedish Transport Administration and the Swedish Energy Agency to investigate litium-ion batteries climate impact from a life cycle perspective. There are batteries designed for electric vehicles included in the study. The two authors Lisbeth Dahllöf and Mia Romare has done a meta-study that is reviewed and compiled existing studies.

The report shows that the battery manufacturing leads to high emissions. For every kilowatt hour of storage capacity in the battery generated emissions of 150 to 200 kilos of carbon dioxide already in the factory. The researchers did not study individual brand batteries, how these were produced, or the electricity mix they use. But if we understand the great importance of the battery here is an example: Two common electric cars on the market, the Nissan Leaf and the Tesla Model S, the batteries about 30 kWh and 100 kWh.
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atc98092 - 6/22/2017 8:54:58 AM

+2 Boost

"The calculation is based on the assumption that the electricity mix used in the battery factory consists of more than half of the fossil fuels."

And there is the flaw in the analysis. The mix of electricity from fossil fuels is decreasing all the time, and in some locations, such as the Pacific NW, FF accounts for very little power generation.

TheSteve - 6/22/2017 11:40:31 AM

+1 Boost

atc98092: re "...The mix of electricity from fossil fuels is decreasing all the time..."

Your statement does not address the fact that at this time, about 2/3 of all electricity generated in North America, and the US specifically, comes from burning stuff, which includes coal, natural gas, and even garbage. Although this large-majority is "decreasing all the time," the rate of decrease is not quick enough to suggest that it'll be a non-issue in the immediate or near-term future.

atc98092 - 6/22/2017 3:26:57 PM

+1 Boost

I absolutely concur that the mix is still up there. I was under the impression it had finally reached 50%, but I see that is inaccurate. However, it does vary greatly by region, as I stated. Also, looking at some charts there seems to be some disagreement about what is considered "renewable". But, I don't feel like getting into that argument. :)

And I don't claim to be green. Remember that I drove a VW diesel for years, and would buy one again in a heartbeat if the new Tiguan had one. I'm still waiting to see if Mazda keeps their promise of a diesel CX-5, and Chevrolet with an Equinox.

MDarringer - 6/22/2017 5:18:51 PM

-1 Boost

non sequitur

Vette71 - 6/22/2017 6:02:44 PM

+1 Boost

Statements about nukes being bad leads to more nukes being shut down which leads to more fossil fuel being used. Look at Germany where CO2 is rising as the nukes get shut down and wind/solar can't take up the slack continuously. All this without a huge fleet of EV's in use which will lead to more fossil fuel plants to fuel them when the wind don't blow and the sun don't shine. Hydro power energizes the west coast and a couple of other places. The majority of us burn stuff.

vdiv - 6/23/2017 5:00:51 PM

0 Boost

A couple of folks that have barely survived Chernobyl and Fukushima will be more than happy to show you how good nukes really are.

Also the DoE just called, you won't mind if they store "a few" leaky containers of spent fuel in your back yard, would you?

TheSteve - 6/22/2017 7:26:36 PM

+2 Boost

One of our big problems is that people become fixated in their beliefs.

Environmentalists get fixated on the vision of running all of the US off clean, renewable energy sources. I applaud that idea. It's a beautiful vision! Unfortunately, reality give you a kick in the balls by hauling you back into our immediate reality. The great and ever-present Now. That beautiful, idyllic, futuristic vision does not have a formula for getting us from "here" to "there". I surely can't be done in a single step, so the only reasonable decision is to start making incremental steps in the right direction.

On the flip side, we have our current primary energy providers: oil, coal, and natural gas being big ones, by far! They own about 2/3 of our electrical market, and nearly 100% of our mobility market (cars, trucks, trains, ships, and airplanes). Their preference is to keep making big profits doing business as usual, leveraging existing extraction, transportation, and consumption infrastructure, for as long as possible. You can expect abundant FUD from this sector slamming renewables and their feasibility.

The reality is:
- We will eventually get off fossil fuels
- We need to get from "here" to "there", so fossil fuels will continue to be the reasonable choice for years to come
- Our progress from "here" to "there" will continue to be slowed by our current fossil energy providers, which includes 2/3 of electricity, some of which will be used for those "clean" EVs and PHEVs

Welcome to reality. Not all evil, or all stupid, or all benevolent.

skytop - 6/26/2017 8:19:56 PM

+1 Boost

Elan Musk is one of the greatest hoaxers of the century.
The electric car is a FRAUD. The batteries are toxic and the electricity to charge them are produced by burning coal.

But the lame brain, lying liberals pushed Tesla and provided free hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars for them to do the losing business model.