Sedan Massacre: GM Considers Killing Volt, Lacrosse, CT6, XTS, Impala and Sonic Models

Is this a pre-doomsday scenario for the midsize & large sedan market? Would CUVs basically replace large sedans in the mainstream market?

To be honest, I've seen very few new LS, GS, ES, 7-er, S-series, CT6, Impala, Camry, Avalon, Maxima, Lacrosse, Taurus, Continental, 300, Passat. I've seen a lot of Accord, Civic, Sonata, Hyn Genesis...just off the top.

I've seen my third new Continental this week and it wasn't a car for hire. Not too shabby!

Camry (2015-2017) - this vehicle is EVERYWHERE!!!!!

The Continental is doing nicely for us.

They still make the Impala?

The Volt is a stunning failure and has been from day one. The Prius is simply better and the Volt isn't really an EV. So it loses as a hybrid and as an EV even though technologically it's better than a hybrid and more sensible than an EV. Kill it because there is no potential for a turn around. The Bolt is also dead in the water.

The Lacrosse is a massive disappointment because of the Avenir that was a gorgeous, blingy Buick and what we got is a Lacrosse that looks like it was designed for MY2000. Ditch it.

CT6 / XTS The Cadillac alphabet soup naming has to go. The art and science look has to go. I'd kill the CTS, CT6, and XTS, and replace all three with a new Seville that adopts the formal styling of the 1976 model and brings it to a modern context. I'd then also do the Escala. Surround them with NAMED crossovers and Cadillac would be on its way to success.

The Impala is better than the Malibu, but so what? No one cares. Still, it did 100K in units. Chevy does not need two large sedans. Make the Impala the Camry fighter and merge the Malibu and Cruze into one C segment sedan marketed by whichever name resonates better with buyers.

The Sonic's volume could be absorbed with a Trax that was not designed for the Third World and then hastily modified for the USA.

GM also has a massive issue with poor styling. Buick shows us the Avenir and Avista that are gorgeous, but NONE of that goes into production. Cadillac shows us the Ciel, Elmiraj, and Escala that are all what the doctor ordered, but then they spit out the deadly boring CT6 and the pathetic XTS update.

GM isn't serious about building iconic cars.

What are some examples of current mass-produced "iconic cars"? Is the Corvette one of them?

Corvette and Camaro currently.

GM has a history of iconic cars, but their frequency is few and far between anymore.

As usual you are 100% correct.

Spies call it in 2016 http://www.autospies.com/news/IF-Sedans-Completely-Disappeared-And-Only-Crossovers-SUVs-and-Trucks-Were-Left-Would-ANYONE-In-The-USA-Care-87410/

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What else does the Autospies 'Crystal Ball' foretell for the future?

I think the sedan market will always be fairly healthy. Every family that I know that has an SUV has a sedan as a second car, and vice versa. The SUV and sedan complement each other well for many family's needs. And the 4- or 5-door coupe trend might be even more fitting for these needs and sales of the A5 Sportback, 4 Series GC, and CLA might strong indications of that as well. No, the 4/5-door coupes aren't selling like Accords or Camry's or even like their higher-roof brethren in their respective brands, but it's still a young segment And if cars like the Kia Stinger and VW Arteon can invigorate sales in the non-premium segment, it may encourage others to follow. Maybe cars like the Maxima and new Accord are already heading in that direction.

I think the days of a sedan in the B, C, and D segments from one manufacturer are over. I think we'll see C segment sedans (Focus/Jetta) that are slightly larger than the current ones with them becoming almost D segment sized. It would not surprise me to see the next Fusion be built on the same "super Fusion" chassis as the Continental. The upsizing would create two solutions: (1) battery space for hybridization and (2) carrying capacity to compete as crossover alternatives.

I think A, B, and C segment cars will be partially supplanted by crossovers in those segments.

It would not surprise me to see Buick go to 1 sedan and Cadillac to 2.

It would not surprise me to see the Lincoln MKZ disappear. It would not surprise me to see the Maxima and the Avalon disappear. I think the Chrysler 300 is deader than dead. It would not surprise me to see the Arteon never make it to the USA.

While I suspect that there will be fewer choices of large cars in the future - with those sales going to SUV and crossovers - which inherently have better interior space for passengers due to the upright higher seats - the Continental itself is an example of where styling - something that has pretty much gone away - can bring back a nameplate (And I am talking about the 1960's - not today).

The CT6 and the CTS cannot be compared in the way you suggest. In comparison to the CT6 - the CTS is tiny inside - it may as well not have a rear seat - which is good for children but not for adults - who also have problems entering the rear seat too. I have a CT6 and have reported that indeed it has no real STYLE - something Bill Mitchell would not have stood for. GM has stayed with the same Cadillac Style too long - and in the same problem Audi has - it Styled the CT6 to look like a smaller car - which does not help sales at all.

The response to the commercial GM used showing the Escala - shows that Styling will indeed sell cars - curiously something GM proved long ago - but something they have gone far too conservative on. Gm always tended to have at least one well styled car in each stable - the Corvette - the Grand Prix - The Riviera - the Aurora - and the Eldo/Seville group. However - the styling of the 1977 Chevrolet - clean yet Elegant like - was what brought back Chevy. Be Fair - the Original Mustang - the original Monte Carlo - the original Granada - and lots of others - sold on their styling - since they were otherwise not particularly special cars.

CT6 is a thoroughly modern large luxury car that happens to be a Cadillac. I certain points the way to how future models should be made. I highly doubt it would disappear.

It sells for crap is why it will disappear.

Yeah, a tiny unknown company from the boonies in California started selling an electric sedan a few years ago, and while folks have been predicting/praying for their demise ever since the company has turned the legacy premium sedans into a minced meat.

"Yeah, a tiny unknown company from the boonies in California started selling an electric sedan a few years ago, and while folks have been predicting/praying for their demise ever since the company has turned the legacy premium sedans into a minced meat."

True, but I have been assured by a guy in this very forum that Elon Musk is an "idiot".

@Mdarringer...the CT6 sells at roughly the same volumes as the Lincoln Continental. Both are sales failures but from reading your posts it would seem like the Continental is a much more successful vehicle than the CT6.

This post is about what GM needs to do to reorient itself. Thus comparing the sales of the CT6 and the Continental do not tell the full story.

The problem with the CT6 is that duplicates the CTS way too much. The CT6's goal was to be a breakthrough product to revitalize Cadillac's sedan sales. It's not been completely successful in that regard and the CT6 is usually discounted down to CTS prices. Cadillac does not need the CTS and the CT6, but neither of them is especially noteworthy. The stakes with the CT6 were high and it's fallen short as a vehicle that does anything to promote Cadillac.

By contrast, the Continental is very much a cleverly designed stopgap gathered quickly on a shoestring to plug a hole. It was originally going to supplant both the MKS and the MKZ--both of which were not taken seriously as premium products, but Ford Credit figured out how to lease the MKZ "well".

The Continental tends not to be as steeply discounted as the CT6.

GM is putting a lot more money out to dealers to move Cadillacs than Ford is fronting money to Lincoln dealers.

That said, the Continental has given the impression that Lincoln is "back". People notice the Continental.

The CT6 has given the impression of same-old-same-old and that Cadillac has given up. People don't notice the CT6.

The Escala (performance and EV) would be a game changer for Cadillac and a Seville (total luxury) would signal that Cadillac is "back".

The CT6 was supposed to be an answer of sorts to the Model S, it was supposed to have a plugin drivetrain and autonomous driving. The problem is Cadillac released the car without any the advanced features being ready and just now they start trickling them in when people already see the CT6 as a "has been".

They can definitely delete or re-do the XTS, it's just not the car Cadillac needs in the segment. I think they made a mistake trying to be an American BMW. My opinion is Lincoln has a better chance of making it because it's confident in focusing on where it's come from and could be an American Mercedes at some point.

If you look at the core markets for Cadillac, North America and China, it would make more sense to focus on comfort too. They should go back to their historical names and trade off their history of comfortable and luxurious cars as opposed to trying to create sport sedans when the brand simply isn't recognised for that, no matter how well they handle.

I think they should keep the volt but reevaluate the sonic and impala, people will keep moving to crossovers and, even if fuel prices increases substantially, crossovers produced today don't necessarily have a huge difference in fuel economy.

The XTS easily outsells the CTS and CT6 and is within spitting distance of outselling them both combined. Of their sedans, it's the one with the best business case. I'd kill the ATS and CTS and then merge them with the FWD/AWD XTS to produce a new Seville. Then replace the slow selling CT6 with the Escala. Essentially, I'd get rid of Cadillac having any small or mid-sized sedans and go instead with a luxury/comfort model on a FWD/AWD chassis and a luxury/performance sedan with RWD. The Camaro and Escala would likely need to share a platform.

Sales for June 2017

XTS: 1000
CT6: 1014
CTS: 846

In yearly sales, the XTS has handily outsold the CTS and the CT6. Because the CT6 landed with a thud, GM has been putting a tremendous amount of money on the hood to make it appear successful. If you want a CT6, ask for 20% off, you'll get it.

In yearly figures the CTS and CT6 handily outsell the XTS, which only cannibalises sales from the other 2 sedans. The figures are terrible whether you look at monthly or yearly sales for all 3 models. They'd be better off to do a Lexus ala ES/GS if they want to cater to the retirement crowd, which they should. In which case there is very little business case for the XTS because the CTS exists at a closer size and price point to the ES, unless they can bring the price of the XTS down from $46k to $38k, the same price as the ES, and keep the CT6 to fight the Germans at over $50k.

RIP

Killing these platforms says two things:

1. The automotive industry has successfully marketed/fooled consumers that utility vehicles deserve a premium, in terms of price, over sedans

2. GM is unable to compete/produce/market their sedan lineup to compete against the competition in terms of design, packaging and perceived "performance".

Therefore, shifting to a class of vehicle that has a longer selling cycle with minimal changes is more viable.

That shows your lack of understanding. Platforms these days can be spat out as sedans or crossovers. Spit more crossovers is the message.