EPA Seeks More Real World Driving Data Before Approving CAFE Standards

1. What good for you would be to have public hearings? - it would be dominated by the scientific community with support for their environmental controls. The Poles are melting - the earth is warmer than it was 50 years ago - and people who claim otherwise are now living in houses that are 50 foot into the ocean - where they were once on dry land.
2. This is actually one place where Mr.Trump has already indicated he would be against more stringent standards - and since they are subject to his control - he can stop them from trying to save the earth - as you wish.

"...The Poles are melting..." not true

"...the earth is warmer than it was 50 years ago..." actually it's colder

"...people who claim otherwise are now living in houses that are 50 foot into the ocean - where they were once on dry land..." there is ample evidence that shorelines have NOT changed

Sorry Matt - but YOU are wrong - the POLES are ALWAYS melting - it happens all the time - regardless of whether it is a problem or not.

WE do have records for the last 50 years - and there is NO question
1 - The average temperature has risen - AND 17 of the highest 20 years have happened since 2001 - that is simply a FACT.
2- THe sea levels are rising (THE are not staying the same and they are not going down) - again this is a simple FACT that can be measured and we do have those records for the last 50 years as well. THere is plenty of proof that the sea level has risen - One only needs to go to Point pleasant to see the sea walls that were once above the water and are now below the top level. And that is happening in shore communities all over the globe - any claim that the levels are not rising is nonsense.

Now- the reasons for this may be subject to claims - but I never said why - I simply stated FACTS.

Give us steady state measures of MPG at 35, 65, and 75mph adjusted for the drag coefficient.

1 - THat NASA article YOU mention only establishes that there is more ice ON THE OCEAN near the south pole - but the fact is - Polar ice - which is that on LAND - has been steadily receding AND that Ocean levels have been steadily rising for decades - and that the ice is leaving he land and ending up in the ocean is a LOGICAL thing during a polar ice melt - since the ice has to go somewhere - and it is unlikely to just up and it in your backyard.

2 -In fact - and NASA has reported that too - that there has been a constant reduction in the total amount of ice in the Oceans as well. But the people living near the oceans - where the wide shores have all but disappeared - and are now threatening their houses know that the ocean has risen - and does NYC - where the last Hurricane to hit caused damage that would not have happened if the oceans had not risen.

Sorry - but we still have had record warmth - as well. 17 of the top 20 warmest years on record have occurred since 2001. THat is not Science - that is FACT - and the people who say that NOTHING has happened to worry about ignore the fact that virtually ALL countries in the world signed the Paris Climate Accord - because the science behind Global Warming is Undeniable - except for an idiot NY Developer. When you get OVERWHELMING multiple actual FACTS that agree with your assumptions - by all means present it. BUT - the fact should be reported by reputable SCIENTIFIC journals - rather than a conservative bunch of nonsense known as PJ MEDIA - which is less reputable than The National Enquirer.

1 - THat NASA article YOU mention only establishes that there is more ice ON THE OCEAN near the south pole - but the fact is - Polar ice - which is that on LAND - has been steadily receding AND that Ocean levels have been steadily rising for decades - and that the ice is leaving he land and ending up in the ocean is a LOGICAL thing during a polar ice melt - since the ice has to go somewhere - and it is unlikely to just up and it in your backyard.

2 -In fact - and NASA has reported that too - that there has been a constant reduction in the total amount of ice in the Oceans as well. But the people living near the oceans - where the wide shores have all but disappeared - and are now threatening their houses know that the ocean has risen - and does NYC - where the last Hurricane to hit caused damage that would not have happened if the oceans had not risen.

Sorry - but we still have had record warmth - as well. 17 of the top 20 warmest years on record have occurred since 2001. THat is not Science - that is FACT - and the people who say that NOTHING has happened to worry about ignore the fact that virtually ALL countries in the world signed the Paris Climate Accord - because the science behind Global Warming is Undeniable - except for an idiot NY Developer. When you get OVERWHELMING multiple actual FACTS that agree with your assumptions - by all means present it. BUT - the fact should be reported by reputable SCIENTIFIC journals - rather than a conservative bunch of nonsense known as PJ MEDIA - which is less reputable than The National Enquirer.

What - still no real accredited Scientific Journal with real Scientific data - Just more Nonsense - HA HA Sorry - but your links are worthless so far. Karl Denniger is NOT a scientist - he is another Brainless Conservative Dimwit- mentioned as one founder of the Tea Party - and works mainly in finance - I really do not consider HIS opinion to be relevant in a Scientific discussion where he makes a claim that he has yet failed to support with legal Proof. ANd of course - that means YOU have not supported yourself either .

Sorry bob - but REAL science shows that the ocean levels have been rising for a while - are rising by about 1/8th if an inch yearly - and the rate of rising is accelerating as well - this by A REAL SCIENTIFIC site - https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/sealevel.html

Your statement about manipulated DATA is just another claim of the Brainless Conservative Dimwits sites you frequent. They have yet to post ANY evidence beyond conjecture that the data has been manipulated for THOSE statements. And I have yet seen you post a link to an accredited actual scientific journal where they PROVE your statements to be true. However - around the world - the leading environmental scientists of all nations agree that Global Warming does exist - and that the Earths sea level is rising and that rate is accelerating. Even the scientists of the United States have shown this to be true.


While there are indeed real discussion as to WHY Global Warming is happening - and I do take that into account - it really makes little difference since It is TRUE - without question from real scientists. Those who ignore it are like the idiots who stay in their houses in the face of a Hurricane landfall - when they finally realize they were wrong - it is too late - and they are never found alive.

Bob - you said you were going to bury me with science - so far NONE at all.
What science is - is a study - lead by a real living breathing scientist with advanced degrees in Environmental studies from a major Accredited University (US or Otherwise) - and published in a major scientific publication - with posted attributions when used. NOT some windbag non scientist yacking on a conservative blog.

YOu have the requirements for a real scientific study - now - go ahead - post one - I'll save you some time - there aren't any that say that Global Warming does not exist and is a myth. Virtually agree that Global warming exists and virtually all of those agree that Humans are at least a major part of the problem (Yes there are a few that add in other possible causes but they do not deny Global Warming)

The ball is in your court!

Sorry - but NoTrickZOne is just still another BRAINLESS Conservative Dimwitted bunch of nonsense. As in the NASA files - where the other site deliberately shorted the description of Nasa's statement - and drew their own NON-scientific conclusion - NoTRICKZONE does exactly the same thing - rarely quoting the original sources properly - and rarely providing those sources as well(Buntgen - et al 2017 fails to mention any studies or where they came from for example) - and sorry -I set out what science is - IT remains a study run by a Scientist who has advanced degrees in Environmental Science from a major accredited University - and Published in a REcognized Scientific Journal where I can read the entire studies - No such information is provided

THe responses to that Buntgen mention for instance - was responded to by one of the scientists -= who clearly states that 1 - his graphs were used incorrectly - and 2 - His study was of the climate from 10,000 years ago and do not apply to the conclusions given.

Now - if you have REAL SCIENCE - provide it - otherwise - you are the moron

Just to make myself clear - I will not even bother to look at anything from politically conservative sites - they are NOT science. It is - by your posting - obvious that conservatives like you do not bother to check sources to see if conclusions made agree with the studies they CLAIM (And the never actually give the actual study titles or publication) and can be led on by the nose by anyone who suits your fancy with stu[id ideas.

Give me the links to the Scientific journals where the studies are published (I have access to most) - and mention the person who lead the study and their credentials. Otherwise - you are just whistling Dixie - and proving you are simply a fraud. YOu said you can bury me in science - so far - ZERO sciencefrom you!

HA HA HA Again - your rightwing Non-scientific website article were conclusions by a Economist and Lawyer - not an Environmental Scientist - if I had presented support from a liberal lawyer - YOU would have rejected it too.

Now - go back to my first answer above - ". What good for you would be to have public hearings? - it would be dominated by the scientific community with support for their environmental controls. The Poles are melting - the earth is warmer than it was 50 years ago - and people who claim otherwise are now living in houses that are 50 foot into the ocean - where they were once on dry land."


The fact is - I have indeed said the truth - the overwhelming majority of the scientific community does indeed support Global warming without question - nothing you can offer will change that -

However - I said two specific things - the poles are melting - AND - the sea levels are rising - Nothing more. I did not give any reason for it

AND - in fact - there is NO question that seal levels have been rising - that is a matter of record - that ALL of your posts also do not dispute - While they may argue whether the reason is one thing or another - may actually be natural - that does not change that the sea level has risen. http://www.azula.com/sea-levels-are-rising-faster-than-ever-before/. Sorry - you have and can do nothing - rising sea level are a Physical Measurement - not subject to opinions.


In addition - the FACT remains that the average temperature is rising on the earth - again NONE of your posts dispute that either - what they again do is attempt to say it is a natural occurance - but I really not care. In fact - if the temperatures were not rising - again a Physical measurement that is not subject to opinion - most of these posts would have no reason to try to explain WHY - which is where they digress from other - BUT NOT FROM ME _ all I said was that the temperatures of the earth are rising - and ALL of your posts have in one way or another shown that to be the case. ANd - the 17 of the highest average temperature years on record have been recorded since 2001 - that is also a matter of physical records.

So - you can post 100 or 1000 - and I can post a Million - none of them change the TWO facts I have provided - that the Poles are melting AND the sea levels are rising.

TOO bad you cannot read.

Oh - by the way - Kenneth Richard is not a scientist - he is an economist with an additional degree in Law. Again - WHY would YOU - knowing that - (I assume YOU check references - and IF you don't - shame on you) - post his conclusions as science - which they clearly are not.

It occurs to me that this conversation has gone well beyond my post - for no real reason.

My post was a response to a suggestion for more "Public Hearings" - and if you really read my statement I was AGAINST that (In tone) - the fact is - the great majority of environmental scientists if the world - according to them over 99% - agree that the environmental problems of the last 50 years (Another thing I specified that is being ignored) - were cause by humans through industrialization and the collection of Green House gasses - and the FACT is - IF WE DID hold public hearings - they would monopolize the conversations.

THen I said - noting the LAST 50 years - that the poles are melting - (THEY are always melting - it would be a real problem if they did not melt - at least near the ocean around the land mass) - AND I said that we have documentation that the sea level is rising - AND the average temperature is going up as well - they are BOTH supportable facts..

AS a science student in college in my youth - as long ago as that was - and I HAVE PREVIOUSLY POSTED HERE - I had a Botany Professor who would have LAUGHED till death if it was suggested that conditions on the earth changed radically in periods of less than TENS of THOUSANDS of years - and maybe even Millions of Years. While there may be "periods" of seeming rapid change - it is rare that the main direction of those conditions is changed much. I did get him to agree - that a catastrophic disaster such as a major meteorite strike COULD cause worldwide climate change - and while it might not be as logical to think about it - such a change could happen in short periods of uncontrolled changing conditions as well. For Example - something could - in a period of a thousand years - could cumulatively result in conditions equal to a catastrophic disaster. However - and while I do not claim to have the knowledge he had in long term weather conditions - I note that in my lifetime - the weather is warmer - and I do not know if that is really as much of a problem as it is made to be.

In changing weather conditions - the earth itself responds in a manner - to address the short term problems - so for example - when the earth gets too hot - Volcanic Activity rises - and when Volcanoes explode they send particles into the atmosphere that actually block the rays of the sun - cooling the planet - and they also block the UV rays of the sun in some ways too. So - it is not so UNUSUAL to see that we have had more volcanic activity in the last 200 years than we have had in the 200 years before that.

But - while it is not questioned that it is the collection of greenhouse gasses that is causing the warming of the earth - the cause of this is again - not completely clear. A study of the Pacific Northwest Carbon levels in the atmosphere noted an area of very HIGH concentration of Carbon in an area of dense trees where there is little influence of man - and found that the trees there were EVERGREEN