Could Lexus Be Working On A Performance Model Of The LS?

Looks like a XXL Honda Crosstour with a grotesque Lexus front and back. Who cares how it "performs"?

From the rear it looks like what BMW should have done for the 7 Series rather than styling the 7 Series to look 17 years old.

I happen to very much like the new LS. It has the swagger of an S Class but in a totally opposite direction i.e. younger and more modern in its ways.

I don't understand why all the German fanboys want Lexus to look like the Germans. You already have plenty of choices if you want a German car.

I don't particularly love how they look but I much prefer them trying something new as opposed to running the same tired designs for two decades like Audi/BMW.

Even if Lexus does produce a high performance version of the LS - what does that do? The people who buy the LS are generally those looking for a reliable big car - not a sports sedan. The LS does not sell in great numbers and a performance version is unlikely to change that - Matt is not going to suddenly drop his desire for a new TVR to buy a sports Lexus LS - is he? Who is the likely target then? Big cars sales are dwindling today - and I don't expect that to change much as more luxurious large crossovers come to the market.

Lexus would be far better off producing performance versions of their Crossovers - where there is a growing market for the Vehicles.

@TomM, as always you assume that how it used it be is the way it will always be.

There used to be 3 premium sedans: S Class, 7 Series, and A8.

The S Class was power, comfort, prestige, and pomposity.

The 7 Series was powerful, comfortable and prestigious, but somehow maintained the driver-car link to the icon of the 2002tii that earned BMW its sport sedan reputation.

The A8 was a wannabe. It wanted to do both styles of premium sedan and wound up doing neither well.

Then came the Lexus LS that targeted the size and comfort of the S Class in a much less pretentious wrapper, but with far better reliability.

That left the 7 Series staggered as the LS gained ground; so BMW--instead of remaining true to itself--became a wannabe LS.

The S Class remained unstoppable, but BMW committed suicide again and again with the 7 Series to the point that BMW may as well just give up.

We all hoped that Marc Lichte's bold new styling would elevate the A8 to being a contender, but the same-old-same-old-worn-out styling of the newest A8 makes it a caricature of itself.

Enter the new LS which is no longer targeting the S Class but the mantle that the 7 Series once held. It's bold...like the 7 Series used to be.

The LS is the new 7 Series. The Genesis G90 is the new LS.

MDarringer, you nailed it.

Hey Matt - YOU did not answer the question - ARE YOU going to drop your LONG desire for a TVR in order to purchase a Lexus LS Performance Sedan? I maintain that you still WOULD NOT.


And - as I pointed out - I have already given that what was will not be again - as I did say both that large cars - and that cars themselves are NOT selling well. Your statement of "as ususal" ignores that I did not agree with you.




THe problem is - and remains - that the LS - no matter how "bold" You think the styling is - I have contrasting opinion of that - is still a car for the Older Large car buyer - that is who buys Lexus cars and that is who buys full size cars as well. Lexus remains a mid-Luxury car - in the Infiniti - Audi - Buick- Volvo - but not in the Upper Tier that BMW and Mercedes remain in. Whether YOU like the BMW is not at issue - the BMW is still known in the market as the "drivers" car - the performance car - and the M-series still is recognized as being near or setting the standard for performance- and not just by its owners - most people accept this. And Grandma owns the LS. Would I spend money for a performance version of the car Grandma owns?

The strategy - even if it produces a reasonably good performance car - is at best - a gamble. Will people who want a performance car - even TRY a Lexus - remembering that Cadillac has the V-Series which most performance car buyers don't even try. Remember - at this level - it is NOT JUST the performance - it is the perception and panache'. Lexus does not have that - and I cannot see a person chosing a Lexus LS over a BMW M-series - a car with a reputation for excellent performance.

ANd that still ignores the fact that large cars are not selling - and cars themselves are also not selling. Are performance car buyers likely to want a large sedan. I believe that market is already saturated with too many readily recognized high end performance car makers that everybody recognizes as such - and I think - in the end - no matter how good the car might be - it will not sell in large numbers. I still say - they would have been better off offering a performance version of their crossovers - where that market still has room to grow - rather than shrink.

Now - would YOU want the new TVR - IF it did not have the TVR name on it - but instead was called a LEXUS? I would suggest it would be less interesting to you - as it is to me - with that moniker.

@TomM I can afford both, so why would I need to choose in an apples-to-oranges scenario?

Well, I for one don't want Lexus to look like something from the Germans, but I don't want a newly designed flagship to look like designs that have been around for years either. This car is just too reminiscient of the Q70 (almost siblings), Equus, Azera, Avalon, Altima, amongst others.

Lexus is looking for sales, points of difference. Maybe they can tap into the large AMG and M, XJR, Panamera Turbo, Model S P100D car market. Coming to market with 450hp V8 will be a waste of time. 600hp is the opening bid in this market now.

I'm not quite sure if there is much overlap between those shopping for an LS and sports cars. Isn't the point of the LS to maximize comfort? Not sure why anyone would choose a LS-F over the other cars already in this market.

Their strategy is to be the alternative to the S Class and not just a similar wannabe.

For what it is, the MB S Class is already a much sportier car than the LS. It has way better handling and suspension for aggressive driving, even with the base model. They would have to make huge changes to the LS to put it in the same league.

LOL @ "much sportier"...how vapid can you get!...BMWs weren't "sportier" they were driver's cars though not anymore. The S Class may be for people who want a "much sportier" car, no one has picked up the mantle of the large, premium, driver's car that BMW abandoned. Lexus could very well be happy to let Mercedes be "much sportier" and go after the drivers out there and leave the passengers to Mercedes.

I am very much looking forward to seeing this car in person just like I am totally fine missing the completely unimaginative A8.

Well, if sales of the IS vs. the C and the GS vs. the E are any indication, then the LS is up against a pretty major uphill battle.

Dear Matt- I think you have completely missed MY point

Large cars - are simply not selling. The Impala, LaCrosse, 300, and Taurus sales are all down 20% or more - and Kia cannot even give away its Cadenza. The 7 series and A8 sales are down as well. Even LS sales are a fraction of what they once were. Only the S class - has down decently over the last couple of years even though their sales are down as well.

We are talking about a lack of market for cars this size - regardless of the level of perception. So - even if Lexus does produce a "great" large performance car - who will buy it - and how many could they sell? I still believe that BMW and Mercedes buyers (And likely Audi and Volvo too) are simply not going to consider a Lexus - but still we are talking about low sales of the cars without the AMG added. I believe that - even coming up with the BEST large performance car based on performance - they might sell 500-1000 a year at best. Is it worth the effort for that level of sales - when they can sell every crossover they make - and special version of crossovers fly out of the showrooms. Imagine a performance version of a large SUV to compete with the Cadillac Escalade - they could sell 10 times what large cars they might sell.

I just don't see the market there for another Large Performance cars the numbers of sales don't justify producing the car.

No, @TomM you have no point. You get a bottle of whiskey into your gullet and start typing about used-to-be things that you purport to be how things will always be.

Your responses tend to be tangential at best and you've done so TWICE in this thread.

TomM, I do believe there is still a market for large sedans, both performance and not. Is it as robust as it once was? Probably not due to large SUVs. Land Rovers/Range Rovers have replaced the large luxury sedan in many wealthy housholds, even ones without children. I've seen more Mercedes G Wagons then S63's or S65's sedans. But I definitely still see a healthy number of S-Class sedans, 7 Series, and A8's. I will be interesting to see if the LS returns to its former glory of challenging at the top of the segment. As I already stated, if current sales of Lexus's sedans are any indication against its German counterparts, it is going to be an uphill battle. While the LC seems to have come out of the gate running, the LS doesn't have wow-me styling to prompt the same type of hype.