TVR's New Sports Car Will Please Traditionalists With A Manual Transmission

Old news. TVR announced it would be a manual more than 2 years ago.

In today's news TVR will greatly limit the market for its new light weight V8 sports car by not offering a DCT or automatic.

If needed, they can bolt in the 10 speed from the Mustang from which the new TVR borrows a LOT of components. When (if) TVR returns to the USA, an automatic will be a part of the mix.

Let's hope so. Regulations being what they are, I could not see financial backers approving a design that could not be sold globally at some point and have the features that middle aged buyers (the true target for these sorts of cars) demand.

@CANADIANCOMMENTS

The new TVR has the 5.0 Ford Coyote/Voodoo engine with different manifolds given the need to fit inside a rather small car.

Various sources suggest a lot of Ford parts bin materials: rear differential, wiring harness from a Mustang, many unseen components, ABS system, and so on. One source even claimed the entire rear IRS suspension is used.

If all of that pans out, this will be one rather reliable TVR.

@MDarringer. Thanks for the clarification. Fetted by Cosworth threw me off. It is indeed Ford Coyote 5.0 Power. As the 10 speed is new, I wonder just how many Mustang parts are for sale to other OEM's. I know it is a huge side business for many car manufacturers that does not get discussed much. Time will tell.

@CANADIANCOMMENTS...

One of the thorny issues that came up between TVR and Ford over the notion of using a Ford V8 for the new Griffith (rumored name) was the Jaguar connection.

Ford designed the Jaguar 5.0 and the Coyote 5.0 as versions of essentially the same engine. The differences are minor.

Even though Ford and Jaguar are divorced, Ford and Tata (Jaguar) still have engineering agreements among them restrictions as to who can use the engine aside from Ford and Jaguar.

Thus, if Aston Martin—a former Ford division like Jaguar—called Dearborn and wanted to use the coyote or the voodoo (same engine architecture), Ford could not sell to Aston because Aston competes with Jaguar sort of.

This is probably why Aston went shopping at Mercedes when it needed to update its engines.

So, when TVR came knocking some conversations were had.

Even though historically TVRs used off-the-shelf Ford engines, TVR fanatics didn't want to go from a bespoke engine--the Speed 6--to bolting in “just” a Ford engine, hence the detour through Cosworth to lend the illusion of "bespokeness" and to make it “different” from the Jaguar V8 as well as the Mustang’s V8.

The voodoo V8--also a coyote engine--was not ready when TVR came knocking, but even if it had been ready, it likely would have driven the price of the Griffith up.

Interestingly, Ford demanded and got access to everything TVR "learned" from Cosworth.

In fact, the rumored output of the TVR 5.0 is suspiciously identical to the 2018 version of the Mustang’s 5.0 that is supposed to get a modest power bump for 2018.

TVR has also said that it plans to go with some forced induction down the road, so it would not surprise me to see the engine in the coming GT500 find its way under the hood of a reborn Sagaris.

@MDarringer,

How do you figure that the Ford and Jaguar 5.0 v8 engines are "essentially the same engine"? The Ford block is closed-deck; the Jag is open-deck. Ford uses cam followers to actuate the valves; the Jag does not. The water pumps are in different locations; the bore and strokes are different. A image search will show major differences between the blocks, heads, and the cam drive chains. At least they share the same bore spacing but other than that, they are very different.

@Hudsonhw771 You proved my point for me. All of the "differences" you mention are slight variations of each other. Both engines were designed at the same time by Ford with commonality engineered in. Closed vs open deck is a minor casting difference at best.

@MDarringer,

Again, no. Ford did own Jaguar when the Jag 5.0 was developed but the Jag motor was designed by engineers in England, not the US. It also went to production two years ahead of the Ford 5.0. Visit a few British car forums that have discussed this topic to learn the truth. They are NOT related, and do not share any major parts (fasteners excluded, of course.)

@hudsonhw771 Both engines are variants of each other and are very similar. Ford went closed deck because they wanted to do reliable turbocharging or supercharging and Jaguar wanted the lighter weight of open deck, but the two engines are very much indeed variants of the same design.

As if the Jaguar V8 being designed in the UK...BS! That's the same BS Maserati uses to say that the Pentastar V6 from Kokomo under the hood is really Italian and designed in Italy.

Fact is - this will be a low production vehicle - a few hundred cars maybe - it will cost a lot of money - and using FORD parts (There was a time when you could not use the word QUALITY when referring to FORD parts) does not mean they won't find a way to put them together that causes lots of problems. Most of the cars will end up in the same "barn" that the rich put their other low volume high performance cars - will almost never be driven - and it is unlikely we will every actually find out if they are reliable cars due to that.

@TomM

Once again, your ignorance is showing.

Yes, the Griffith will be a low-volume car. It’s projected to be 250-400 vehicles per year and they have deposits for two years production.

Yes, it will be expensive. The figure is currently $100-125K, so about the price of a nice 911 or a Jaguar F Type.

But, as for using Ford parts...Jaguar, Land Rover, Range Rover, and Aston Martin products use/have used many Ford components: engines and systems so this is not some cavalier plan on TVR's part.

You say that these TVRs will not be driven much. Clearly, you do not know that TVR owners are known for driving them a lot.

In the UK, Holland, and Japan TVR owners go on many weekend outings. Some of the outings are quite long distance.

In fact, a while back, a sizable group of TVR owners embarked on a road trip that was roughly 10,000 KM in distance.

There are TVR owners in the USA. Some are street legal (up to mid-80s) and the rest are track cars, but the cars are getting driven.

Because TVR owners love their cars, they tend to sort out the gremlins. There are several shops in the UK that will make your TVR quite reliable.

Sorry - but I am not ignorant of the situation - Matt - I have deliberately followed the situation because of you.

1 - I really do not believe the TVR will be in the low price range YOU suggest - when equipped with a steering wheel and brakes. I am sure that most will easily top $150,000 in the end - and there will be those close to $200,000 as well.

2 - I really do not car who uses parts from who - the fact is - that in itself does not mean that they will be reliable. Car manufacturers in the past have managed to screw up royally - and I still do not believe a Low Production Vehicle like the TVR will have had enough Software development time to prevent problems.

3 - Since we have no real record on the NEW crop of TVR owners- I would suggest that most of those older ones are racing their wheelchairs and will not be buying cars anymore if they are still alive. There are still very few road racers left - that brought a mechanic along with them in the passenger seat. Again - it depends on WHO actually puts the money up to buy the cars - and how much they end up costing. I simply state the facts - most of these expensive limited run sports cars end up in collections where they will be seen more than driven.

4 - If you have to send you car to the UK to get it "sorted out" - that "affordable" price is out the window. YOU are still talking about PAST TVR owners - and we have no reason to believe that their obsession with their Unreliable monsters - will in any way be equivalent to the current crop of new owners. If you can somehow take the cars BACK in time - those owners would not be able to afford them anyway. I am NOT ignorant of THOSE people from the past - I am simply saying - time has moved on- and the people who will buy the new limited crop of TVR cars will not be comparable to those from the past on a variety of levels - from Income and Net Worth - and so on.

If you prefer to live in the past - why buy a new TVR - you can still get an old one - and FIX it.

No @TomM, you are powerfully ignorant.

Point #1: Converting the price that TVR has quoted to dollars, you're at $71.6K base. If you want the full carbon fiber treatment, then you're going to be around $125K which is roughly the price of a 911 typically.

Point #2: So the dead reliable Coyote V8 is suddenly going to be horrifically unreliable? So the Mustang wiring harness that is trouble-free is going to be a nightmare when installed to the Ford engine, Ford engine management system, and Ford ABS?

Point #3: Just because YOU HAVE NO IDEA how many TVR owners/enthusiasts there are does not make it so there are none.

Point #4: You don't have to send your TVR to the UK to be sorted out. My shop has quickly sorted out several.

You say "...I simply state the facts..." NO you state OPINIONS and delude yourself into believing they are facts.