Musk Promises F150 Fighting Pickup Next After Model Y Debut

LOL
He can't seem to build the Model 3.
The X is a disaster for quality and reliability
The Tesla "Fusion" needs to be replaced
it's about to implode

Tesla will remain - until there are several alternatives that compete on price. So I suspect we will have a couple more years before that is true.

WHen another manufacturer produces EVS that are available at lots of dealers who compete on price- Tesla will be at a distinct disadvantage. Not only do they NOT have enough profit to move a lot on price - not only do they not have immense distribution (Even Mercedes has lots more) - not only do they not have lots of local places to reset the computers - but people will rebel against long distance tows to a far away place(only warranty for the Model S) - and the inconvenience of needing a day to get the car back.

But yes - then TESLA product will not only be harder to sell - but it will be the OLDEST product available too.

Tesla will remain - until there are several alternatives that compete on price. So I suspect we will have a couple more years before that is true.

WHen another manufacturer produces EVS that are available at lots of dealers who compete on price- Tesla will be at a distinct disadvantage. Not only do they NOT have enough profit to move a lot on price - not only do they not have immense distribution (Even Mercedes has lots more) - not only do they not have lots of local places to reset the computers - but people will rebel against long distance tows to a far away place(only warranty for the Model S) - and the inconvenience of needing a day to get the car back.

But yes - then TESLA product will not only be harder to sell - but it will be the OLDEST product available too.

Tesla is dead in the water once Porsche and Mercedes come calling.

Sorry, not having traditional dealership's is one of Tesla's biggest advantages. Cuts what is now an unnecessary middleman for low-maintenance EVs.

The result is that customers are gouged for price because there is no competition to get the business of the customer. As soon as Tesla has to actually compete against Porsche, Audi, and Mercedes, Tesla will be in deep caca with with business model.

There is no such thing as dealer competition. Try going to a dealer and asking for invoice price minus all rebates and promotions.(That is the Telsa price, invoice minus all promotions).

The manufacturers set prices just like Tesla, then give to to the dealer at that fixed price. The dealers than compete on how much they will overcharge you.

A DOJ study found autodealers add 5-10% more to the price of cars. On top of that over 90% of the population hates autodealers.

@TheBuey total BS

First of all, the "invoice" isn't literally what the dealer paid for the car.

Secondly, I don't know any dealer of any brand that would say yes to giving you the car at invoice minus the rebates and incentives. Why would you expect ANY business to sell any product at a loss?

BUT to say that dealer competition doesn't exist because you're an idiot buyer who expects a price accommodation that no dealer of any brand will agree to just shows how illogical and unintelligent you are.

Dealers routinely compete with each other.

Manufacturers do NOT set prices. In fact, setting prices is up to the dealer specifically so that a manufacturer cannot price fix.

What makes you think that Tesla is so virtuous with customers? They are out to make a buck. The difference with Tesla is that they price fix at a number advantageous to them and tell you because they won't dicker on the price that they are being fair to you....and the happy rainbow unicorn snowflakes like you fall for it.

But that doesn't make it intelligent.

"Secondly, I don't know any dealer of any brand that would say yes to giving you the car at invoice minus the rebates and incentives. Why would you expect ANY business to sell any product at a loss?"

Your own quote is exactly why dealers don't save you money.

Tesla sells to consumers at invoice price minus rebates. If they had to add a franchised autodealer, they would sell it to the dealer at same price as the consumer buys it now. And the dealer would then add his premium on top of it.

This is precisely why dealers can't ever save you money and are not competition. Because the one who sets the price is the manufacturer and the dealer just adds his premium on top of what the manufacturer charges for it.

What keeps prices in check is competition between brands.

"Your own quote is exactly why dealers don't save you money.

Tesla sells to consumers at invoice price minus rebates. If they had to add a franchised autodealer, they would sell it to the dealer at same price as the consumer buys it now. And the dealer would then add his premium on top of it."

You clearly have NO IDEA how the car business works.

Tesla doesn't compete, therefore the customer gets raped. If a Tesla dealer shows you the invoice and then subtracts discounts and offers it to you at that price, all that means is that the real invoice is well below the handy dandy price you've been quoted that you think saves you money.

But to recap: Tesla dealers are purer than the driven snow and conventional dealers don't compete for buyers.

You realize that Tesla does not have a monopoly on cars right? They are competing with other brands and had a huge uphill battles to sell a brand new type of vehicle other companies were not in any pressure to make (why would they, lower maintenance tech means less profit for dealers).

@SanJoseDriver You realize that saying "You realize that Tesla does not have a monopoly on cars right?" misses the point, right?

If I want a Model S, it doesn't make any difference which store I buy it from because the price is fixed, to Tesla's advantage, and I--the customer--lose on the deal.

If however Teslas were sold by COMPETING dealerships, I could easily pit 2-3 against each other and come out on the winning end of the deal.

To say "You realize that Apple does not have a monopoly on computers, right?" would not lessen the fact that Apple price fixes and price gouges.

If 2 dealers competed to sell a Tesla Model S, they will sell you a 100k Model S for 102k. End of the day the manufacturer sets the price, all dealers can do is charge a premium on top of it.

This is not limited to Tesla, if Ford sells a Focus to a dealer for 50k, he can only sell it to you for 52k. If Ford sells it for 100k, the dealer can only sell it to you for 102k. The manufacturer be it Tesla or Ford or etc all have a fixed price. That price is called the "invoice price"

And the dealers just add their middle man fees on top of that invoice price. I prefer to just get the invoice price directly from Tesla than pay more to a dealership.

I guess it depends on the behavior of those in the market for a BEV vehicle. By 2020 when there is supposed to be more competition, Tesla will be very established as the OG and best BEV in the business. Will its brand as the originator of luxury BEV's be less than, equal to or great than older established ICE brands now offering BEV vehicles? Time will tell.

Tesla will be sold to the highest bidder for the name within 5 years.

They brand themselves as a premium car, not luxury car.

The one who has no clue how the car business works is you though. All manufacturers be it Tesla, Ford, GM or etc set their own prices for cars. The dealers can only add a premium above that price to make their profit, there is no way around that. This is why all dealers do is compete for how much extra they will overcharge you.


You don't need to look further than the hellcat to see the true colors of dealers. Chrysler could have charged a premium for the hellcat, but they didn't. The one who charged the premium was the dealers who rocked up the price sky high. Tesla could have also sold their cars higher, but they didn't.

There is a reason why people call franchised dealerships as stealerships. There is also why car dealers have the lowest honesty and ethics score out of all professions according to gallup right along side members of congress.

So true, and the overall experience is usually terrible. After going through the process with Tesla, there is no going back to a traditional dealership.

Indeed. Once you brainwash someone into the cult, they believe forever. Tesla is just the automotive version of Scientology.

It's actually just a company that builds great products that customers love, without any pushy salespeople or traditional marketing. You should be proud that an American company pulled off what they did.

Initial Model 3 reviews are comping back mostly positive, they are going to be around for a long time.