Lexus LS460 Mini-Review

the new BENCHMARK, period!

BMw, AuDi and MerCede benZ engineers are crapping their pants right now, no doubt.

Right, that self-parking gizmo has everyone scratching their heads.

Better call NASA to create it.

It is stupid comments like these that create flame wars. Nice try at provoking a flame war, Homer.

EL, you need to quit it as well.

Willis, FYI NASA have been using self-parking for a long time when they want to spacecraft to link.

I'll bet this self-parking will be a flop and no one will buy it.

Why should BMW "crap it's pants" when Lexus openily admits thats who they want to be???

Lexus has been running several TV commercials for the LS460 and the highlight they are using to sell the car is the self-parking feature and in one commercial they show a guy around 45 in very ggod shape and he's amazed at how little work he must do to park his car.

The commercial reminds me of those commercials that sell facial wrinkle removing cream and the woman are in their 20's.

But, I do understand how self-parking would be a great thing to have if to have an injury to the neck which doesn't allow you to turn your head which would be a problem parking this boat.

Kind of like those electric jar openers are good for people with arthritis or some sort of hand injury.

'nicehomer'
Throughout all my years of being an Autospies member, you write the most interesting comments... you so know what you are talking about and use the best method to keep idiots like 'ben' quite, i respect your point of you and will support you with all your arguments... lets kill those german fans!!!

Couple of things. Not a single magazine has been able to attain the Lexus acceleration figure (this has been a trend lately) Second, the Volkswagen Passat [out for about a year] also holds your brakes at stoplights AFAIR.

Please, don't insult Lexus by comparing it with MB.
retro MB is becoming another Dodge in a comparison in relation to advanced technologies. MB just don't have it anymore..Lexus is leaving them in the dust again.

personally i liked the 2004-06 ls front lights better then these. IMO

Nicehomer,

Lexus Benchmarked MB as who they wanted to be when Toyota started the brand.

Now it's well known in the industry they want to be BMW.

I don't think the LS is good looking.

Can you at least admit that it's even a little generic? Just a wee bit? Because it is. If they want to sell these like hotcakes, they need a design that stands out. Case in point: the new S550 is the perennial best-seller.

Where to start?

Harman Kardon owns Mark Levinson, Becker, JBL...so you can stop your "my stereo is the BEST."

Automatically holding brake- MB has had this feature since 03 with the introduction of SBC. Very useful especially when going up hill.

One button open/close trunk - MB has had this since 2000 in the S/CL class.

Auto parallel park - VW introduced a better version of it back in 1992.

Ben55..you are claiming that a VW of all things had:

"Auto parallel park - VW introduced a better version of it back in 1992."

Prove it. I highly doubt you are telling the entire truth here..perhaps microscopic sized truth but...when you look into the meat and potato of it all..LEXUS is the BENCHMARK.

German POS cars are falling wayeeeeee behind technology and just admitted.

VW introduce it and if it was much so better back in 1992 so were is it today.

Wow Ben i dont see jetta having one nor passet or even your favor car the beatle. Why Why?

Maybe b/c VW constantly places 35th or even 36th out of 37 nameplates in its latest survey of inital vehicle quality by J.D. Power ranks.

or it could be b/c VW sales have plunged 37% from 2001 to 2005 and barely making a net-profit (little over a billion) a very slim-net gain.

or it could be b/c VW only sold 224,195 cars in the U.S.!!!! outsold evewn by Kia.

or b/c in U.S. VW and Audi's sales were so dismally small, resulted in 2 billion dollar loss from 04 to 05!

You may change name from Golf to a Rabbit but underneath its skin of VW is just that: A POS cars that don't sell and keeps breaking down. No future in these cars....honest truth.

Ben, does ANY 1 SINGLE POS GERMAN car have 30GB hard drive which you can save audio CDs to????

Ben, Name ONE single POS GERMAN car that have a whopping 8 inch screen inside of their car w/19 speaker by Mark Levinson (Also a benchmark of the sound system, period)

Ben, Name ONE single Piece of Shit German car with 8 speed tranny??? JUST ONE, God d****t!!!!!!!!!!!

Ben, Name ONE single German POS car that can parallel park by itself??????? Without electrical problems causing a spark and explode!

I can go on and on but German POS cars receive F for their effort on everything while Lexus are the true innovators and Mercedes, BMW and Audis are of course going to start copying Lexus. i.e. hybrids for example. But at this time..Ben don't even mention about quality or reliability in a same sentence with POS GERMAN cars in a same sentence motherf***er.

I truely believe your response to this article was the worst response I have EVER read in my entire life.
Get off the crack!

hey ben! where is BMW from that!! AFAIK all these inventions were in BMW much earlier than Lexus!

Hey Ben you little turd...You stated "Harman Kardon owns Mark Levinson, Becker, JBL...so you can stop your "my stereo is the BEST."

I bet if a Mark Levinson was installed in a POS Yugo, you'd be dancing in your underware b/c its not a Lexus or a Japanes built car right you POS boy.

^^^^^^^^lol

BEN!

One button open/close trunk - MB has had this since 2000 in the S/CL class.

So what exactly is your point????

So what if the Chinese has invented a Compass or a Gun, while at the same time Germans were running around forests and River Marshes carrying a wooden clubs and hunting deers and raising sheeps in Alps?

Do you Ben understand..what truely matters is making things that WORK without falling apart? MB falls apart within first few years. Go check out Consumer Reports *I believe its the BEST magazine BTW. and take a peek at all and every single german built cars. ITs covered with problems and THAT my SON is a FACT.

Harman Kardon owns Mark Levinson, Becker, JBL...so you can stop your "my stereo is the BEST."

Wrong!!! Wrong!!!! Wrong!!!! again!!!!

No-one ever mentioned who was "Best".

The fact is that many car stereo experts around the world agree that Mark Levinson installed inside a LEXUS is a "BenchMark", meaning "best of the best". Gpt it, goofy?

I don't think that with just 20 min. driving a car we can recognize how IS IT EXCACTLY! It's possible to have an overall impression but definitely not a complete. That's why i personaly can't trust this test. How long this tester has drove with AUDI A8 and BMW 7 ? This test is just a very bery short impression of a car which needs to be driven during hours to be discovered and compared with it's competitors!

Message to the moderators. NICEHOMER is obviously trying to start a flame war. My advice: ban him.

Thanks.

My comments. The review was poorly written (English). The LS is a fine car and a technological marvel, but so are the other cars in this class.

Oh, and NICEHOMER. I own a 2006 Mercedes C230 and I am completely satisfied with the car. I don't pay attention to JD Powers or Consumer Reports because I know the faults of these publications. I've owned the car for 7 months now and I am completely satisfied with it. Not a single unscheduled shop visit and no electrical problems. In fact, the car has been flawless.

Nicehomer, you need to shut up if you don't have anything intelligent to say. You're an obvious Lexus troll, so I doubt most people will take your childish comments seriously anyway.

Willis, Name a Single German POS car that can match a LS? Name a Single German POS car that could even come close to a luxurious and truely functional and awesome detailings of an interior design of an ACURA or INFINITI? Name a Single German car that comes close??????? I thought so. NONE.
btw, I have more confidence on a beatup 1975 Civic than a POS MB and that is a fact. Don't try to lie either, bonehead.

Maybach

"Name a Single German POS car that could even come close to a luxurious and truely functional and awesome detailings of an interior design of an ACURA or INFINITI?"

Audi interiors are far and away better than Lexus interiors in every class, let alone Infiniti and Acura.

Lexus interiors are overrated.

you wrote:

"The LS is a fine car and a technological marvel, but so are the other cars in this class."

Name a single German car??????? I want to read about it! Are you telling me that other German cars in this class could even come close to reliability of an Lexus?? Technology that actually works?? You numbskulls need to get off the crack, seriously.

Read the CAR reveiw of the new LS460. October issue.

The Jaguar XJ was only less reliable than the LS430, and more reliable than anything else in this class. I doubt that the LS will stay at the head of the pack with reliability, because its technology seems too complex to be problem-free. I have premonitions of those self-park systems failing, and LS460s crashing into other cars while "parking themselves".

The S550 has more new technology that is advantageous to the everyday consumer, such as better safety equipment, and a more refined interior (it just is better-designed on the inside, LS has too many buttons). The A8's design and execution is better overall, and it's much more nimble to drive. The 7 Series's fifteen minutes of fame are over, however.

Antoher thing, Willis!

Name a single God**** German Hybrid car that actually runs without fallin apart?

NONE NONE NONE..LIke I said and say it again...
when it comes to technology, GERMAN POS are couple years behind and that is final.

Nicehomer, please name me one Japanese diesel-powered car, just one, that actually can match the European diesels for cleanliness, refinement and power?

Well?

The Japanese have a pronounced stigma against diesels, so it is only natural for them to develop a fuel-saving car based on a fusion between a petrol engine and an electric motor. Diesel has long been the preferred fuel-saving method in Europe, only natural that the Europeans will work on diesel technology as opposed to hybrid.

And if you knew anything about cars, you'd quickly find that hybrids, as innovative as they are, are also hyped up by the media. Hybrids, as stated many times before on this site, are very efficient in an urban environment. Do you know what urban means, Homer?

You must be Jewish with all your anti-German hating.

Nicehomer did you know that Harman Int. is a German company?

Bosch and Siemens are german company's

Did you know MB created the first automobile?

ZF is german and regarded as the Benchmark for slushboxes?

If the Germans are so bad why does lexus want to build BMW's?

Willis, name ONE German POS company that has a hybrid OR hydrogen engined car in market. DO NOT REPLY with bullshit...just tell me YES Or NO
YES or NO.

BMW has been seen testing hydrogen 7 Series models.

What kind of thing is that to ask? BMW is more involved in hydrogen power than any other company out there. I give them a lot of credit in that field.

Nicehomer, you want some cars than can match the Lexus LS in technology, comfort etc.?

Audi A8
BMW 7-Series
Mercedes S-Class
Jaguar XJ
VW Phaeton

Every car here is a quality product. You can go on with your bias and "bullshit", but frankly, I doubt people are going to take your seriously, except other anti-German car fans, which constitute a large portion of Autospies unfortunately.

And before you claim that I am a German "fanboy", you should know that I have owned Japanese cars in the past and my wife currently drives an Infiniti FX. Both my German and Japanese cars have proven to be both durable and reliable. And perhaps it will interest you that my wife's FX has been in the shop twice this month already because of a faulty fuel pump. Do I classify the car as a "POS" because of that? Hell no.

YOU my friend, need to lay off the crack, seriously.

HA HA HA...a Ford Jaguar???? is this a joke??? This Company has been bleeding red forever with worst mechanical problems. Its about 10 years behind in this league my son!

VW Phaeton, This must be a JOKE? I asked you to name ONE, a single ONE car that can match a LS..and you bring me a plate of deadfish/VW???

AUDI/MB/BMW are absolutely NO MATCH againest a Lexus. Go google yourself..go check out 10 year old interiors. Why do you think a Lexus has the highest owner Loyalty?

If this is your way of trying to make me laugh..you have stunningly suceeded! But truth is all your POS German cars are just that..POS. And that's final.

Nicehomer,

You're full of shit. I know you're a troll, so I won't even bother.

"VW Phaeton, This must be a JOKE? I asked you to name ONE, a single ONE car that can match a LS..and you bring me a plate of deadfish/VW???

AUDI/MB/BMW are absolutely NO MATCH againest a Lexus. Go google yourself..go check out 10 year old interiors. Why do you think a Lexus has the highest owner Loyalty"

Wow, you're a little turd. Welcome to the list.

Will, you have yourself the "logical" of Lexus.

The Audi A8L's interior is so much better than the new LS's that it's not even a comparison... the LS's interior design is SO dated. There's a taste of your own medicine.

The Volkswagen Phaeton is more luxurious than the Mercedes S-Class, let alone the cheap LS460.

The Jaguar XJ has more character than every other car in this class combined. It's beautiful.

There, I said it.

design wise, i think the LS is just corny, the tail lights are disgusting in a mutated hyundai sonata way, from any angled view it looks like a big toyota, the front of the car looks just absolutely lazy from an angle that is. The interior console still reminds me of an ATM. It is a nice car both in looks and function it just lacks the elegance and presence of its rivals, the 7, S, and A8(perhaps the most elegant of all)

I can see where this is going. Willis has to choose his "destiny" today. If he picks German, he's an enemy of the Toyota/Lexus community. If he picks Japanese, well, welcome to the club. Give it a rest, Will.

BTW, I think Willis already stated that he doesn't have a favorite brand. "He purchases what he likes" I believe his words were.

And let's face it, Will, Willis' opinion sounded pretty straightforward and non-biased to me. And I am not defending him because he set things straight here. That's what I mean with you and the gang hyping up Lexus. You're making it sound as if the competition is "crap" compared to the almighty perfection that is called Lexus. Spare me.

Will, people can choose to like all cars- we don't need to be devoted to one brand, but I know that idea is alien to you.

I am among that small union on this website. I love the S-Class, A8 and 7 Series, but I also admire the LS for its refinement, the XJ for its beauty, and the Q45 for... well, not the Q45.

Japanese cars that I like:

From Lexus: IS350 (not IS250), LX470, RX
I can see them improving the SC460 (next-gen SC430) by a lot. I'm excited to see that.

Infiniti: G (especially G35 coupe in black...sexy), M, FX

Acura: RSX (it's dead!), TSX, RDX, NSX (also dead)
If you've noticed a trend here, I like their youthful models more than their luxury-oriented cars.

Subaru: Legacy GT

Honda: Civic Si, Ridgeline, Accord V6, S2000, Fit

Toyota: FJ Cruiser (they finally took a risk), Land Cruiser

Nissan: Versa, Murano, Altima V6, 350Z

Suzuki: Get back to me on that

Isuzu: Oh, you're still here?

Forgot Mitsu.

Mitsubishi: Eclipse, upcoming Lancer, Evo

Lexus GS / LS
Mitsubishi Montero
Nissan Cedric / Gloria
Mazda RX-8 / Mazda 6
Toyota Avalon
Acura NSX / Acura TSX / Acura RL
Infiniti M / Infiniti G

I totally agree with nicehomer, his opinions match exactly mine, on other thoughts, all the POS comments about german cars are facts. And again, none of the german rivals stands a chance next to this LS

With that type of reasoning why not just buy a Toyota Camry and save money.

Based on styling I would buy a 7 Series over the LS460 anyday.

IMHO.

Well then Mr. ToyotaLexus, you are a TROLL then and shouldn't be taken seriously.

Now go back and play your Barbie dolls...

Test drive the LS460 without the Mark Levinson against the A8, S-Class and 7 Series and then get back to me.

I'm talking about completet driving experience and I could care less about one touch boot release.

To: BEN From: YOUR buddy NICEHOMER.

Ben, does ANY 1 SINGLE POS GERMAN car have 30GB hard drive which you can save audio CDs to????

Ben, Name ONE single POS GERMAN car that have a whopping 8 inch screen inside of their car w/19 speaker by Mark Levinson (Also a benchmark of the sound system, period)

Ben, Name ONE single Piece of Shit German car with 8 speed tranny??? JUST ONE, God d****t!!!!!!!!!!!

you still haven't answered me, worm. Now have some balls and stand up straight with a chin up high in the sky and give me an answer maggot.

It it a Yes Sir or NO Sir?
(waiting)

yes you are right current German cars do not have the reliablility of a Lexus.

I think having 2k songs on the harddrive is great, but why not a Ipod adaptor as well.

The 8speed tranny actually works like a 6 speed untill your at a constant crusing speed, then it's just 2 overdrives.

Now onto what Lexus can't do produce a drivers car. IS350 quick in a straight line but no ideal what to do at a corner, same with a GS, ES, LS. Brakes forget about it. A the King of all things STEERING FEEL 0 in a Lexus. Now before you cry yourself to sleep I like Lexus vehicles and there perfect for what their customers want, but there is know drivers passion in the cars. German cars are like people our flaws give us a Soul. You mentioned Infiniti go drive any Infiniti with over 15k on it RATTLE BUCKET, they have more TSB's then anyother Luxury/premium maker.

Give me a ONE single German built car that equals in reliability of a Toyota?

The Truth: ZERO
Other Truth: German cars were actually NEVER really known for reliability. They parallel everything with other car manufacturer's of the past gone R.I.P.

German cars were actually NEVER really known for reliability.
===============================================

German cars have always been reliable up intil the mid 1990s, when quality slipped. Claiming that German cars never have been reliable is pure ignorance.

Go home, dipshit.

Lexus problems:

RX= dash rattle tsb, rear window rattle tsb, Hybrib system failure tsb, clip recalls, rear door seal leak tsb, backup camera fallure.

ES350= complete transmission failure recall, tire pressure light tsb

GS= transmission, sunroof, tire pressure senser.

LS=backup camera, nav screen failure, tire pressure senser.

GX= steering rack, sunroof, audio failure, suspinson failure, tires, backup camera.

LX= pretty solid.

again I'm not basing just lexus is not as bulletproof as you believe. I work with all the Luxury brands and they all have trouble. I will say Lexus is the best about catching and repairing problems before they become recalls.

adoptgreyhounds, and the bigger ToyLex gets the more recalls they will have because recalls always happen to companies that get bigger and bigger.

Just like with guitar companies.

I remember when Gibson made the best guitars and then it was Paul Reed Smith, but now there's lots of small guitar companies that make the best because they have the time to pay attention to details.

TSB's are not recalls, and if you do some research lexus spends more time per car built then any other luxury/premium OEM. Toyota/Lexus really hates combined terms like ToyLex, Field reps will rip anyone who refers to them that way.

I love all the neg. boost because people don't like the truth. Talk with someone who works for lexus Corp.(not a dealer) and they'll tell you BMW is their new benchmark, and MB was the origianl.

nicehomer
is the LS supposed to be driven? or are you supposed to grab some popcorn and watch movies in it?

Nicehomer isn't nice at all. The guy strikes me as a total dumbass. I was warned about Autospies, why didn't I listen?

He is a dumbass. ;)

refined yet ugly

LEXSUCK

nicehomer you are funny! LOL You make this website cool! tell them like it is especially EL34!

I asked for a VERY SIMPLE QUESTIONS..yes or no.
Not surprisingly...they try so hard to veer away and comeout with excuses after excuses.

Go suck on a pacifiers, grownman infantiles!

Actually at one stage you asked us to name ONE single german car that did something or other, but then insisted we reply simply with a YES or a NO.

I think you'll find no-one is taking you serioulsy, and unless you're secretly a German Car Fan trying to make Lexus enthusiasts look like idiots... then you really should stop posting, it's just a senseless waste of everyones time!

German cars have nicer lines than Japanese cars.

The End.

German cars reminds me of a patients with a full blown AIDS and about to expire and no their lines are crap..go take a good look at BMW Z3/Z4...what lines? Its a jigsaw puzzle gone wrong, son..and that is final.

"German cars reminds me of a patients with a full blown AIDS and about to expire and no their lines are crap"

You remind me of that exact thing.

The Z4 is a horrible example of German design efficiency. Wonderful examples include the Porsche 911, Audi A8, BMW 335i coupe, Mercedes CLS/CLK/SL/CL/S, Audi A6, BMW X5, Porsche Cayman, Porsche Boxster, Volkswagen Rabbit, BMW M5, Audi RS4.

That sounds a lot more formidable, to me at least, than just Lexus LS460.

And if you told me you hated Porsche, I would be able to see through you.

Porsche is just about the best car manufacturer on Earth. Period.

I saw a couple of Z4's today at the grocery store and like always they look like body builders with the cuts.

Lexus cars look like they're fat to me, like manatee's on wheels.

nicehomer, that is a very strange way of describing a car, but that's the way you do it.

Tell one Lexus that looks as good as the BMW Z4?

The Z4 is the coolest!

BMW530i, I don't give a shit about your claim b/c its all fake like your screenname but keep up the good work b/c flame war has just begun and thanks to you!

Nicehomer, I don't know what the fuck you are talking about, but you're pissing me off. I'm going to ignore you from now on, dipshit.

^^^^^Smart move. I'm following your lead.

The new Ls should be called the L class. It is no "S".Lots of foam rubber, builder grade carpet, and really bad wood. Looks like a 750 ran into a gs. Way too expensive with the rear seat package.

1989 Lexus LS400's interior still surpasses current GERMAN POS cars sold NOW at the walmart at a massive discount. How could you insult a LS w/750 interiors..its about 6-10 years behind.

The wood that's in these cars is paper thin veneer and not like wood found in good quality guitars and mandolins.

Haha the two freaks are fighting...

The new Ls should be called the L class. It is no "S".Lots of foam rubber, builder grade carpet, and really bad wood. Looks like a 750 ran into a gs. Way too expensive with the rear seat package.

why would you take this over a 7,s or even a8...

Why do you say "even a8"?

The A8 is better than the 7 Series.

I don't want to flame, but it simply is.

A8 vs. S-Class is debatable. It would be hard for me to choose between them.

for you, but me I rather have 7, not because Im BMW, but I like it...and I know the the A8 is better...

The article states that Lexus is the first to come up with the break that holds you at a red light, but that was actually a feature introduced on the BMW 7-series it was first released back in 2002. So, in fact, someone had thought of it before.

Now it's time for a weekly Autospies.com message board update:

Lexus sucks. BMW sucks. Audi sucks. Mercedes sucks. GM sucks. Chrysler sucks. Ford sucks. VW sucks. Toyota sucks. Nissan sucks. Infiniti sucks. Mitsubishi sucks. Ferrari sucks. Citroen sucks. Rover sucks. Tesla sucks. Lotus sucks.

That is all.

LOL!

My customer posted an incredibly well written review of his new LS460. Here is the link:
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244805

you foget handa...

Honda doesn't suck.

and neither does ferrari

why is it so hard to hate honda?
toyota - easy!
bmw - easy!
honda - hard.

"why is it so hard to hate honda?
toyota - easy!
bmw - easy!
honda - hard."

Because Honda clearly makes better cars than Toyota, and their owners are far better than BMW owners. Honda's cars have a lot more character in one tire than the entire Toyota Corolla can muster. I don't understand how Toyotas sell better- I think it's on image alone.

It's because Honda is that little company that could. They make the Civics, we buy the Civics, and everybody's happy.

thats it, because hondas have character. they look different, they're a bit edgy and push boundaries. they're not dull.

nicehomer,

go get your ls460, worship it, and stay away from this site. your comments really irritate the rest of us that know better.

besides, with all the features the ls460 has, as you claimed, it will be quite some time before we see you back here.

oh, and just for shits and giggles, let's do the features on the s-class, 7-series, and A8 too, okay?

maybe you can compare and contrast, and maybe you will see how lexus trails the euro's?

I meant forget

Nicehomer,

Why do you hate German cars/makers so much??

P.S. what do you really drive?

He's Jewish. ;)

I like Lexus but a steering wheel warmer?
What a cr***k.
Lexus plays ball like a girl.

Most luxury companies offer this feature on their high-end sedans. In fact, almost all of them do, including Audi, BMW, Jaguar, Lexus and Mercedes-Benz.

First of, all these comments from euro fans about how the LS doesnt handle well are irrelevant. Havent you seen the demographics the LS caters to? If you havent try to get this through your thick skulls. The avg age of the LS buyer or that of its competitor is around 60-65 yrs old. Do you really think folks this old want to push their car through corners or care about steering feel, grip feel, road feel or what other nonsense. They would be happy if they can feel something in their pants. But do they want to have a rear ottoman because their legs are giving out or a auto parking as they have become too senile to do it themselves? Yes. And to this degree, the new LS is unsurpassed for a car under 100k, and the only car that comes close is the S-Class.

Nice discussion you guys have going here. ;).

This is a nice car, but definately NOT obsolete like some of you make it to be.


G

"Give me a ONE single German built car that equals in reliability of a Toyota?

The Truth: ZERO"


this is true.

not that the germans don't make good cars otherwise. but the reliability issue REALLY needs to be addressed.

the much vaunted mb S-class, for all its other virtues, gets a "Not Recommended" from CR due to its poor reliability record.

The S-Class's reliability specs have not been released yet.

CR reliability stats go out to previous 8 years. the S's record has been LESS than stellar.

if a model has not been SUBSTANTIALLY changed, CR goes by the record. (new skin on existing platform and drivetrain only affects Body Integrity issues. which can show up within as little as 2 years.)

By the way, has anyone tried to build their own LS on the Lexus website? It seems ALL of them are being imported with the self-park feature. You have to pick Option Package 1 or 2 and both of them include the self-park. Just an observation...

some criticize the LS for all its electronic features, saying "it will be an expensive mess when they fail."

but UNLIKE in german cars (the critics must be USED TO THIS), electrical/electronic bugs are rare to non-existent in toyotas. to say nothing of lexuses.

after all, even before cars, besides cameras and motorcycles, it was quality ELECTRONICS which built japan's reputation for quality.

Yes, but you have to admit, there's a high probability of the new LS460 having more-than-the-Lexus-norm realiability problems, what with its "technological advancements" and all. I can see that self-park system failing.

would this come even within a mile of the MB norm of reliability problems?

Will,

As of today would you say you prefer German cars, or Japanese ones?



I don't prefer any of these. I appreciate cars from all over the world. The Germans, Koreans, Japanese, Italans, French and Americans all build great cars. I buy what I like.

I refuse to answer your question because by the looks of it, I will be labelled as a German / Japanese car enthusiast by either sides here.

I bought my current Mercedes C230 because I liked the design, the feel of the car, the drive and the fact that it had a nice sporty engine. Among others, I testdrove the BMW 325i, Saab 9-3, and Lexus IS250 / IS350 and they didn't win me over. The BMW's ride was too harsh, the IS steering was a little lifeless and the IS250 felt underpowered as well. The Saab was nice but no match for the BMW and Lexus. The Benz won me over because of its balance: sporty, yet comfortable.

So there you have it. I currently drive German, but I am by no means a German "fanboy". I've owned German, Japanese, American and Italian in the past.

Don't get me involved in these silly " X cars are better than Y cars" arguments.

Wonderful point of view. If only all of the angry posters on this website were as open as yourself.

I've owned Japanese (Acura Vigor and '95 Acura TL, among others), Swedish (Saab 900 Turbo coupe), American and German. From my owners' experiences, I can wholeheartedly say that I've had the most satisfying cars from a German make, which leaves me with my current state of mind. My Vigor was nice, but my TL was a lot more bland to look at inside and out and wasn't particularly fun to drive, but my A6 was fabulous and my S4 is the best car I've ever owned.

Yes, well said, Willis. ;)

IS250 underpowered? It has 204hp 185lb vs C230 201hp 181lb. I think both cars have similar acceleration times. Maybe it was the refinement that made you think it was slow. I have a 997 Turbo and it can feel slow because its so quiet, comfortable and refined. But my butt and speedometer tells me Im at warp speed:)

You are right about the "silly " X cars are better than Y cars" arguments." Too many fanboys spouting propaganda instead of rational factfinding discussions.

Good, very good comments! Thanks!

Yes just ban nicehomer and EL34

Why, because I said Lexus designs cars that look generic and I like German autos more?

I never knew so few could pollute a forum this bad. Your (selected people, most of you are cool) arrogance is incredible.

Homer, man, you have got to pull your head directly out of your fat ass and drop the bias. When you drive the cars you so frequently bash you can come back and tell the world just how much they suck but until then drop it. You continue to fill the place with nonsensical drivel, lending evidence to the fact that you are really 12 years old.

After driving the S and LS back to back, I can come away with the partisan belief that the S is the better car. Is the LS well built? Yes. Does the LS posses some very cool features? Yes. But in the end, the S provides a far better driving experience than the LS. The S handles far better than the LS, and sacrifices almost no driving comfort. Thats not to say it's a bad car, but it just goes to show that Mercedes went the extra mile when it came to the driving characteristics of the car.

That's the reason I bought an S550. Drove both the LS and S-Class back to back and came away impressed with both. But the S-Class just offered that extra touch of sportiness and was just as comfortable.

That's the reason I bought an S550. Drove both the LS and S-Class back to back and came away impressed with both. But the S-Class just offered that extra touch of sportiness and was just as comfortable.

While I don't doubt Lexus' technological prowess or reliability, I'm generally turned off by the exterior styling. Lexus cars look as though the original model of it "melted", where everything (fender creases, headlights, etc.) is rounded off and making it look more bland than it should. However, the new LS460 and IS models are reversing that trend, IMO.

the "melted" look results from wind-tunnel tests.

the challenge to stylists/designers is getting good Coefficient of drag figures AND aesthetically pleasing lines.

the ultimate melted car is the original audi tt.

but it had an aero defect: unstable at high speeds.

was it just aero styling, sans substance?

toyota have recalled 1 million cars worldwide for faulty parts that may cause the driver to lose control of the car!! I will pick a german car anyday over a rice burner(I own an '04 S4), one the most exciting sport sedan in the world. german cars are so much more fun to drive, better built quality(assembled like a panzer tank), and most new automotive technologies including safety come from germany. the only thing I admire from the japs is their slightly better reliability, but that will never deter me from the german driving experience and 'fun factor', which those japs cannot duplicate.