DRIVEN: If The Genesis G70 Is Any Indication Of Things To Come, Then The Germans Need To Be VERY Worried

If the ________ is an indication, the German should be worried.
ATS
XE
Giulia
Stinger
G70

I don't think the Germans are worried about any of them because this is the usual breathless promotion of a new car in the premium segment.

Indeed - the problem is it will take GENERATIONS of cars before they are considered to be real premium cars - and what normally happens is that they are not consistently good (Look at Infiniti for instance).

ANd worse - by the time needed for them to approach the Germans - there might not be any totally ICE powered cars left anyway.

lmao, genesis will only compete with buick, lincoln, the domestics and maybe acura.

People laughed at Lexus when it debuted as well. The future for Genesis is far from determined, a lot of it will depend on how much money Hyundai want to pour into to the brand to make it competitive.



For me personally I'm intrigued by the G90. I've read a lot of good reviews on it and since the market is overlooking it I could score one for 61k here in Chicago which at that price there is probably value in it.

remember the phaeton...

The G90 is absolutely tremendous and worth every penny of $61K, but why not lease it?

My bet: Porsche, BMW, Mercedes... they won't be worried.

I predict that when Hyundai-Kia buys FCA, that the Genesis cars will be reskinned as Maseratis for a massive quality leap and that Genesis will die.

Isn’t going to happen. Maserati and Alfa will be spun off before the sale of the Chrysler portion of FCA. Maserati/Alfa will be a parallel company to or under Ferrari whose chairman will still be Marcchione. Remember Maserati currently sells 50,000 cars per year with the goal of 75,000 to 100,000. Engines for all those cars are supplied by Ferrari, the electrification technology for future model is coming from Ferrari (F1 Kers system). Ferrari is located less than 15 miles from Maserati/Alfa headquarters in Modena. Maserati and Ferrari are too intertwined for Maserati to be sold off to any other manufacturer. Alfa is in the process of being integrated into Maserati.

The talk is that Sergio is shopping the whole thing and NOT spinning off Alfa and Maserati because the latter are not viable entities on their own.

That deal was turned down 2 years ago. Sergio didn’t want to include Maserati Alfa. Do you seriously think the agnelli’s would allow the Koreans, Chinese or even the Germans (outside of Lamborghini) to have production facilities in Italy? How do you think they ended up owning Alfa and Maserati in the first place? Alfa to keep out Ford and Maserati to keep out Daewoo.

@Foncool The deal is very much back on the table and being taken seriously.

As for the Agnelli family it's a total win.

Deal will not include Maserati Alfa, Ferrari is too dependent on Maserati. Besides that the Italian government and unions would never allow the sale to go through.

Yeah, agreements are never ever reached in business negotiations. Ferrari being dependent on Maserati made me laugh. As for the Italian unions, this too is a 100% win. Fiats would suddenly be capable of being world class in design and quality by leveraging Hyundai platforms. Better cars...better sales...better job security.

As it is, the Italian car industry is about to implode under the weight of mediocrity which means less sales and less job security for the unions.

But if the Italians want to keep the Italian garbage and sell the American arm, that too is a massive score for jobs here.

Again you have no idea what you’re talking about, have you ever been to the Modena Bologna area? That is the heart of the communist party of Italy. Maserati is what keeps Ferraris’s foundry running at capacity, it sure as hell isnt the 9000 cars a year Ferrari builds. Marcchione planned to build Alfas outside of Italy. That got stopped, why do you think the Miata platform became a Fiat instead of the Alfa it was originally supposed to be. Hell DeTomaso tried to sell off the Maserati factory car collection when he sold the company to fiat. That got stopped.

A foundry is a foundry is a foundry. It's not like Maserati is doing well anywhere in the world.

In 2012 Maserati sold approximately 6,500 cars per year, 5 years later they are selling 50,000 cars per year. Please explain how almost a 10 fold increase is not doing well?

@Foncool you're either a ridiculous fanboy or you're an idiot. Maserati competes with Mercedes. 50K units in volume is abject failure.

You are so far out of your depth it is worth trying to explain things to you. Stick to Hyundais and Kias, that seems to be your ceiling you’d never make it going upscale.

No, you're a fanboy that thinks the Italians will take Fiat, Maserati, and Alfa Romeo and go home. And they may very well do that, but the Hyundai-Kia thing presents them a tremendous way of making a lot more money. That money will appeal to them. Sergio has failed to make Maserati and Alfa-Romeo fully viable. H-K could fix that in a nano-second.

"The G90 is absolutely tremendous and worth every penny of $61K, but why not lease it?"

I generally pay cash for cars and drive them until they die. I believe I get the best value for my dollar that way. I feel their is only value in leasing if you can write it off as a business expense.

The question is whether I get a solid 14 years or so out of the G90...My bet is I can

If you can afford to drop $61K all at one time, doing so on a car is not financially wise. Lease and put the rest of the money into making more money.

"If you can afford to drop $61K all at one time, doing so on a car is not financially wise. Lease and put the rest of the money into making more money."

Really the smartest thing to do is to buy a 20k car and then invest the rest. I can't really win in any scenario.

Why is it that you can afford a $60K vehicle cash but then expect to drive it until it drops. You're definitely an atypical consumer.

I see cars as bad investments so even though I love them I want to save a buck.

If I splurge on a luxury vehicle and keep it for the long haul my costs should still be less than leasing. A 60k vehicle may push that boundary (haven't done the math) but with the down payment required on a lease and the multiple leases I would require over a 14 year period buying in cash I suspect would still be to my benefit

The "should" is the operative word in that. I'd rather lease cheaply and multiply the money. Because leases are so subsidized these days, the buyer doesn't really feel the hit of the depreciation, but you will on a buy...especially on a Genesis.

Your math completely ignores how you could multiply the money over and over which erases the lease cost over your magic 14-year ownership.

How many miles do you put on a car in 14 years?

I'm guessing I would put around 200k miles on the car over 14 years...probably 170 minimum

You're right at the optimal mileage for a lease. So let's say that of the $60K burning a hole in your pocket you put $4K down and pay $500 a month on a lease of a nice car. Over two years, that's $14K. Even if you do nothing, you still have $44K.

Now drop $60K on a G90. At the end of two years, it's probably worth $30K or less so you're tremendously in the hole. Mercedes, BMW, and Audi also have steep depreciations despite what the sales people say.

My question is, could you use the $44K to make $14K over two years to make your lease essentially free.

I could.

ou're right at the optimal mileage for a lease. So let's say that of the $60K burning a hole in your pocket you put $4K down and pay $500 a month on a lease of a nice car. Over two years, that's $14K. Even if you do nothing, you still have $44K.

Now drop $60K on a G90. At the end of two years, it's probably worth $30K or less so you're tremendously in the hole. Mercedes, BMW, and Audi also have steep depreciations despite what the sales people say.

My question is, could you use the $44K to make $14K over two years to make your lease essentially free.

I could.

The lease would be higher than that ...probably over 600 minimum

The key is the rollover..How many leases will I have to have over that period? Will the downpayments and the monthly payments exceed the 61k over a 14 year period

There isn't an investment strategy that guarantees that return either unless I invest with Madoff

The lease would only be 600+ if you were foolish enough to pay list.

I could double the leftover money in two years, then double it again and so on.

Your model is to keep the money in a tin can for financial security and do nothing. Mine is to multiply it which erases the worry about the cost of leasing.

Of course there is no guarantee of a return but that doesn't prove the opposite either.

The one thing I'm exceedingly good at is making money