IF You Were Shopping For An All-new HYBRID or EV Commuter Car, What Would YOUR Top Choices Be?

I don't commute. I need (and have) an SUV, and I frequently use its hauling capabilities.

That said, the Porsche Cayenne plug-in Hybrid has caught my eye! It has a pure EV range of up to 27 miles, which would cover all my short trips, easily. I've done some data modelling, and here are some results:

...On trips less than ~30 miles, it'll get better fuel economy than my current car's best *highway* MPG.

...On trips less than ~35 miles, it'll have a lower fuel cost per mile (electricity + premium gas) than my current car.

I'm curious how real-world comparisons would stack up against my current Audi Q5 diesel. The Cayenne is well out of the Q5's league, at about double the price, so you don't get a Cayenne to "save money". You get one because you were going to get a Cayenne S anyway, except with the Hybrid, you get similar performance and better fuel economy.

You really can't go wrong with a Pruis or Lexus ES Hybrid

@mre30 Lexus ES hybrid = yes / the Prius is simply too ugly to be seen in.

@JazzyJizz I'm God. I'm everywhere simultaneously.

If you want to hassle with the dealers and want a car that is already obsolete sitting in the back lot, then you have many to chose from: Bolt, Leaf, i3, ...

If you want something that looks very good on paper and can wait a year, two years or whatever, and don't need to travel far, you have the I-Pace, Taycan, E-Tron and a whole lot of computer images to chose from.

If you want to drive in style in a car like no other, a car that will continuously improve over its long lifetime, there is only one: Tesla.

A bonus for choosing Tesla is that you don't have to put up with clueless salesman and the sleazy finance guy in the back room. You can even have the car delivered to your door if you prefer.

And you get cash raped because you pay the full Tesla price.

Sounds like some sleazy finance guy got a hurt feeling.

Hey, I thought you wanted a timeout ? Nah, don't bother to reply.

EVisNow If you want to overpay out the ass for what you're getting by embracing price fixing I absolutely support you. The rest of the world who are NOT snowflake, financial idiots like you typically mind their more more.

I agree with EVisNow, today it is the Tesla. As other car manufacturers are now putting their full weight of engineering prowess behind EVs (and stealing some great talent along the way) I expect this market to be ultra competitive perhaps even as soon as 2 years. The I-Pace is an early example of this coming wave.

If you choose the Tesla, you may need a second vehicle as the Tesla has numerous, well-documented quality problems and because of the service backlog, sometimes is in the service center for a long time. Then you have to take time out of your workday to deal with the service loaner and arranging return of your vehicle from the service center.

@mre30 and yet some fools here think that Tesla quality is far superior to Porsche-Audi.

For new cars available today, it would depend on budget (amounts below are after EV rebates):

- $100K+ : Model S P100D
- $75K : Model 3 Performance
- $50K : Model 3 Dual Motor
- $25K : Nissan Leaf
- Less than $25K : Lease a Honda Clarity EV for $199/mo

Already made my choice and put in an order last week - Model 3 Dual Motor (white interior, sport wheels)

Are you aware of the Clarity's stupidly tiny range?

My daily mileage is closer to 100 with at least one day a week more like 600.

- $100K+ : 918 Spyder
- $75K : buy a 30k used 5 series with enough left over for 50 years of gas
- $50K : buy a 30k used 5 series with enough left over for 30 years of gas
- $25K : Nissan Leaf
- Less than $25K : Lease a Honda Clarity EV for $199/mo

@SanJoseDriver: re $75K for the Model 3 Performance (M3P) after EV rebate - you are confusing the mentally challenged audience.

The base price for Model 3 Performance BEFORE incentives and options MSRP is $64K.

The most expensive M3P has MSRP of $80K (before EV incentive), plus mandatory $1K destination charge. It includes all the options below:

- Base: $64K - AWD with Rear motor 283 hp, Front motor 197 hp (combined max output is ~450 hp). Aero wheels 18", Black Paint, Premium Interior
- Performance Package option $5K: 20" wheels, stronger brakes, plus other goodies - and a future Track Mode for the track junkies.
- Paint: Multi-coat Red or White $1.5K (other colors $1K)
- Interior: White $1.5K
- Enhanced Autopilot (EAP): $5K
- Full Self Driving (FSD): $3K

My M3P checked out at $76K (no FSD) before state tax and fees (excluding EV incentives).

Savings:
- $7500 Federal tax credit (not a rebate, you get back your overpaid tax)
- $2500 California rebate (income based, not applicable to many people)
- Low maintenance: with regenerative braking, the Model 3 can easily last 100K miles before a brake job (full brake jobs: Porsche >$4K, MB >$2K, BMW >1.5K, ...), no oil change, no radiator flush, no worries on a myriad of sensors for the engine, no exhaust fume, ...
- Fuel: 116 mpge (a little less efficient than the Long Range model at 130 mpge). The M3P will replace my sports car that averages under 14 mpg, which translates to around $3K saving a year on gasoline (12K mile/yr)

Extra bonuses:
- OTA Software updates - no shop visit, no appointment, ...
- Future features or enhancements added at no extra cost (Track Mode, possible bump in performance, ...)
- On site Mobile support
- Home delivery in enclosed truck
- Sanity: Quiet driving environment, HOV lane privilege, no line at the pump, no dirty pump handles, ...

No, the Tesla rebates are 100% in full effect until the end of 2018, then they drop from $7500 to $3750 up until June 2019, and then drop to $1875 for the rest of 2019.

@EVisNow, good call I was going for consistent numbering ;) $70k after rebates is the worst case scenario with all boxes checked and full self driving.

I did /do extensive travel - leaving on Sunday night - and returning on Friday night. Staying at different motels during the weel. That eliminates an EV or Plug in - not just the distance traveled but the lack of charging stations means they do not fill the bill.

My first Hybrid was a Ford Fusion - and while it did get good gas mileage - It was at best - a transportation appliance - the CVT was lousy - I barely fit into it - but at least it was a measure better than a Prius which was too small.

My second Hybrid was/is a Chevrolet Malibu Hybrid - which was a quantum jump up from the Ford. I had more seat travel for me - its transmission was far more behaved - it actually felt more like a regular car. ANd it got really good gas mileage. I highly recommend it - to today. THe other option though - is the Honda Accord Hybrid - which goes neck and neck with the Malibu - the interior of the Honda looks better than the Malibu - and if it were available when I switched to the Chevy - I might have chosen it.

I still believe that a "regular" Hybrid is superior to EVs or Plug ins for most suburban dwellers. Most Plug Ins have limited range on the Batteries and do not match Hybrid mileage on the ICE alone. ANd of course - you need a way to charge the Plug in everywhere you go - which is unlikely. If your Commute is more than 20 miles - the Plug in is not the choice.

Now - if you happen to live in a house with a garage - and have the ability to install a 220volt charging system - then an EV is a choice. I would want one that has a range at least 50% more than your round trip commute. This is not a choice if you have no ability to charge your car on your own property - charging stations are not regularly available - and you might have to stand in line to get to the charger too. Also note - the EV remains of no use for long distance trips - which means you will either have to have another ICE car for them - or rent one - and that cost - if you regularly travel - makes an EV a questionable choice - and you have to run the numbers to see if it is worthwhile.

Note - the biggest problem with many EVs is the lack of service centers that can access the computer. Often there is only ONE PER STATE - and remember - Towing services will not include a really long distance tow with the included freebies. IF your car is out of warranty - or if your warranty does not cover towing (Note - even many extended warranty companies do not offer it for some cars) you can look forward to a major expense for towing - even if the repair might be minor. Add in that since that service point is the ONLY place where the computer in the car can be reset - if you have an accident - you might have to have your car towed there AFTER it is repaired - to do it -and pay for that tow.

I have a coworker that just took a 5,000 mile roadtrip without major issues in a Model S. Some stops did have to take over an hour though, so the had to be carefully timed with food/destinations.

@SanCarlosJoseDriver, the other Tesla employee had a reliable experience for 5000 miles without singing the "Flatbed to Fremont Blues"? #StopThePresses

You guys are seriously idiotic sometimes, I don't work for Tesla.

@SanCarlosJoseDriver Did Elon tell you to deny that you work for him?

If I worked at Tesla I don't think I would be able to afford a Tesla, they're not known for great salaries.

The Tesla Model 3 Premium I have starts at $49k. Rear motor, 310 mile range, 130mpg-e. Zero emissions. (My power grid at home where I charge is less than 1% coal btw). It has literally changed my life. Driving my Audi S4, I had to keep in mind that every time I climbed into the vehicle it would eat anywhere from $5-$10 of gas out of my wallet for just a basic trip and back home. The same route in my Model 3 costs $1 or $2. The Model 3 driving is a quantum leap beyond even Audi... the S4 now feels old and clunky, the mechanical engine and transmission feel inefficient and “loose” compared to the instant torque and acceleration offered by Tesla. My wife is not a car nut and is also in love... the instant kick is intoxicating. I guarantee for $49k you are not going to get anywhere near the car from rival carmakers.

If I was buying today, I'm not sure any EV would satisfy me. I have driven the E-Golf, and like it a lot. If it had 150 mile range, that would be my choice.

As far as hybrid, the Hyundai Ionic is doing quite well for my daughter and son-in-law. They are both lead foots, and still getting 55 MPG. But the Kia Kona PHEV is a nice rig as well.

Not in order of preference. Just what I would consider.
Commuter driving
e-Golf
Ioniq Electric
LEAF (40kwh)

Longer range driving
Model 3
LEAF (60kwh)

You are in the trade of selling cars so you should know the rule of supply and demand. If nobody wants your car you lower the price via discounts, whereas when you have a desirable car that everyone wants you jack up the price. Don't pretend your job is to help the buyers. In your job, you are there to extract the last dollar you can out of a transaction - there is nothing noble in being a car salesman. Berating people for facts you don't agree with will only make you look bad.

As for Tesla's pricing - last I check we are still in a free market that follows the rule of supply and demand. If the price is too high people will shy away which in turn will force the company to price it accordingly. Collectively, consumers in a free market will ultimately determine the price of a product - not a car salesman.

Just ordered a 2019 Range Rover PHEV today to replace my 2016 Platinum Escalade. So I guess I would get a Range Rover.

I like the new Leaf, if they added another 100 miles of range it would destroy the Bolt.

In what way, the Model 3 just outsold all of it's primary competitors COMBINED. Leaf sales are a fraction of the Model 3. They sold 1,149 Leafs in July, maybe 7% of Model 3 deliveries.