Toyota And Subaru To Team Up Again For Next Gen 86/BRZ

Toyota And Subaru To Team Up Again For Next Gen 86/BRZ

As we near the end of its run, I care less that the Toyota 86 and Subaru BRZ never got crazy turbocharged power the way everyone wanted and more that they were happening again, period. The world needs more small sports cars. Evidently both automakers agree, even as crossovers and trucks take over the world, because all signs lately point to another Toyobaru in the cards.

And yes, it seems it will be a Toyobaru again—a joint venture between Subaru and Toyota, potentially to use a Subaru Boxer motor once more.


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dlindlin - 3/22/2019 5:56:14 PM
+3 Boost
Might as well move the engine to the back seat


MDarringerMDarringer - 3/22/2019 9:04:41 PM
-1 Boost
If that ditches the SuperBeetle engine, I'm OK with that.


mini22mini22 - 3/22/2019 6:14:47 PM
+3 Boost
I think it will remain front engine. However I would be shocked if no improved engine. I'm betting on the 2.4 from the large Subaru SUV Accent. Figure wider track similar length, nicer interior and more low end torque.


MDarringerMDarringer - 3/22/2019 9:05:46 PM
-1 Boost
Going to a superior Toyota engine for improved NVH would be a good thing. The Subaru engine makes noise but it's noisy noise that always sounds low-rent.


MDarringerMDarringer - 3/22/2019 6:29:19 PM
-1 Boost
#1 Ditch the FWD derived engine placement (the current GT86 was derived by removing the front drive shafts from an Impreza and moving the front suspension imperceptibly forward).
#2 Ditch the horrible Subaru engine (a smooth, reliable, turbo Toyota 4 would be such an improvement).
#3 Pay someone to style it for you.
#4 Call it "Celica".


dlindlin - 3/23/2019 5:14:45 PM
+4 Boost
Nissan and Honda needs to get together for a Z/S project


MDarringerMDarringer - 3/23/2019 11:17:52 PM
-1 Boost
The Japanese are astoundingly bad at doing sports cars.


mini22mini22 - 3/24/2019 1:41:17 PM
+2 Boost
I don't know--they've had a few hits. Nissan GTR. Lexus LFA, Mazda twin turbo RX7, original Mitsubishi Eclipse, Mitsubishi 3000, Datsun 240Z. These are all, of course, past efforts. Lot more competition today and not everybody is interested in a 2dr car anymore. That explains why a Civic Type R is a 4dr hatchback.


MDarringerMDarringer - 3/24/2019 2:20:26 PM
+1 Boost
The GTR has been hit and miss throughout its existence. The current one is a good effort but it's ugly and a 911 is better.

The LFA was largely ignored.

The Eclipse was good the first two generations and then it was raped for the 3rd and 4th.

The Mitsubishi 3000 GT was a good-on-paper sports car, but not in reality.

The 240Z was good but the 260Z was pathetic, the 280Z still worse, the 280ZX was a disco barge, the 300ZX was a better attempt but was more a Japanese Monte Carlo than a Japanese 944, the next 300ZX was stupendously overpriced, the 350Z was ugly and had tons of durability/reliability issues, the 370Z didn't remedy completely the issues of the 350Z but it was a lot uglier.

A similar trajectory befell the RX7

The Japanese simply do not have the virtuoso spirit.

Instead we get from them sports cars with asterisks: Miata and GT86.

I'm not impressed and the Supra--for me--is a nail in the coffin because it's just a BMW in generically ugly styling.




mini22mini22 - 3/25/2019 1:09:37 PM
+1 Boost
But what this really proves is that other than muscle cars the sports car market is really a sliver profit for any auto maker and more likely to be a lost leader. The Japanese have really come to this conclusion. The best way around it is perhaps what Honda is doing with the Civic. That is taking a mass produced FWD platform and developing into a Type R. Hyundai in Korea does it better for the Veloster by going through their existing parts bin to upgrade to the N. The only other way is to go in with another car maker today if you wish to sell something semi affordable. Assuming Subaru wants to replace the current WRX of course they will use the new existing platform of the current Imprezza. And frankly to make a viable case for the Miata/86/BRZ it would make sense for all 3 companies to join forces on a shared platform. (I say this as Fiat might cancel the 124 Spider and Mazda may need a new partner for the MX5 replacement). I don't think cheap RWD Japanese sportscars are astericks, however. Provided they can improve engine performance and keep general prices below 30 grand they offer a unique RWD experience that you can't get in a FWD based hatch. To me if the Supra offered a manual in the US with BMW inline 4 and a 10K lower price it could be a good value. Other than these offerings there is really no affordable sportscar market from Japan anymore.



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