MUST READ: A Foggy Future: Where Can Lexus Go from Here?

Car companies are you paying attention?

It's about reliability, stupid!

No, read it. It's about Lexus's somewhat lackluster sedan models (I assume this was before the LS460 was introduced).

They state that without the SUVs supporting them, Lexus would be #4 in luxury car sales, and it would be in this order:

1. BMW
2. Mercedes-Benz
3. Cadillac
4. Lexus
5. Infiniti
6. Lincoln <--WHAT?
7. Audi
8. Jaguar

I think you could take Lincoln out of there. I'm pretty sure that's based on rental Town Cars.

I think Lexus should develop a more exciting, visceral version of the GS.

Take out SUV sales, when will the madness end. Don't worry their car sales, it will increase. I am seeing new IS' on the road like crazy (most of them 350's too).

Take out the "S" in the class name of the car and see what happens! (No Sales)

I can't stand when people say take the SUV's out of a car company. Its still part of the company.

If you look a the date of that article, its from mid 2005, so while lexus still leads in quality, this article is way out of date because it was written before the latest versions of the IS, ES and LS were introduced.

True.

I did notice that after I posted it, and actually read it.

But it poses a strong argument, you must admit.

Is Cadillac consider a car?

this article is so old, well around a year.

"Yeah, it is dated. However, it's nice to see a snapshot of some questions and now we see the answers."

This is exactly what I meant in posting this article. Dated or not, it shows a look at something we haven't really thought about.

The ES has always been the second-best seller- it's nothing new that it's selling about as well as the RX.

The IS isn't quite a volume seller. I live in a wealthy area, and I don't see as many ISs as I do 3 Series and A4 models. I do see ESs (mostly ES330s), however. They should make an ES hybrid- it makes financial sense, and it would sell like hotcakes, if the RXh is an indicator.

No, an ES400h, using the RX's engine. It would make more sense, because the ES and GS are on different platforms.

Lexus could possibly take a dive and use the Camry's four-cylinder hybrid powertrain, badging it the "ES350h" (for familiarity and more prestige than a lower number), and making it priced LOWER than the normal ES350. Most owners are over sixty, so they wouldn't really care whether or not it had a four-cylinder. This way, there wouldn't be too much power for a FWD car.

They will increase sales worldwide but...

A year or 2 ago projctions were that they'll pass the 500 k mark this years.

So they're actually bellow projections (due to Japan and European sales).

Agree with u goldsmith.
Where can Lexus go from here....Well towards it's goal of becoming the best and best selling Luxury nameplate.
To the skies.

JUGNU

To fantasy land you mean.

Again 2005 sales outside USA ~90 000 vs. ~857 000 for BMW.

They won be in the same league with BMW/MB in sales nowere soon.

lexus combined with toyota numbers leave bmw in the dust. likewise mercedes.

and this is NOT an invalid comparison. both mb and toyota are FULL LINE companies. mb has their equivalents of camry and corolla.
as there are no TOYOTA equivalents of S-class, the lexus line should be plugged in to that area.

What a stupid post.

BTW the article is so old now,doesn't make any sense or any point by posting it now.

But still as huu76 said "Yeah, it is dated. However, it's nice to see a snapshot of some questions and now we see the answers."

LEXUS sold 12000+ LS460's in JAPAN in it's first month alone.

So don't say that only RX is responsible for that top spot of LEXUS.

The article states that RX is the best selling vehicle in Lexus line-up.Well that's because of the the RX400h,the hybrid variant.
Otherwise IS and ES are also very close,or even would have surpassed it.

It's an all-round performance collectively which results in the success of LEXUS,and makes it the best selling LUXURY nameplate in the world's biggest and most profitable carmarket.

BTW it's obvious that most sales happen at the lower end.Don't expect the sales of LS,GS and LX/GX to match those of IS,ES and RX.

JUGNU


JUGNU

"LEXUS sold 12000+ LS460's in JAPAN in it's first month alone.

So don't say that only RX is responsible for that top spot of LEXUS."

This is confusing. You state that Lexus is #1, but then mention Japanese sales, where Lexus isn't even close (they were just introduced there). Lexus is far from #1 worldwide (BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Cadillac, Volvo, Saab are all ahead of it, among others), and Lexus did not sell 12K LS460s in the US in the first month. So this is a pretty weird comment. The RX is single-handedly responsible for Lexus's top spot in the US, yes. If it wasn't ever conceived, BMW or Mercedes would be #1.

if it hadn't been conceived, mb and bmw would not have brought out THEIR suvs to boost sales numbers.

why fault lexus for seeing and being FIRST to exploit a trend (luxury suvs)?

"if it hadn't been conceived, mb and bmw would not have brought out THEIR suvs to boost sales numbers.

why fault lexus for seeing and being FIRST to exploit a trend (luxury suvs)?"

I wasn't. JUGNU just had a very confusing post, stating LS sales in Japan and then saying that they'd be #1 (in the US?) without the RX. They would not. RX makes up like half of its sales.

06-09-2005

Lincolns are reliable, I own a Navigator currently.

An 01.

I remember that CR said they were the least reliable!

i could just buy a Ford expedition and install a wood steering wheel and save thousands of $$$$$ , why bother
buy any Lincion.

"I remember that CR said they were the least reliable!"

CR has also said plenty of German cars are unreliable. In reality, most of us don't have any serious issues. CR is a stupid publication and should not be taken seriously.

The pickup is called the Mark LT, I believe. The MKX (Mark X) is a hideous crossover that they just introduced.

I know were all confused.
Lincoln originally planned to call cars with "MK" Mark, like Mark X is the ugly Ford Edge thing, but nobody was calling the Mark X. They were saying "EmmKayyExxx"-
So, lincoln decided "EmmKayyExxx" it is. So no more "Mark".

Yeah lets not take any publication, which goes against our point, seriously.

only 1 thing i have to say. LEXUS WILL BE #1 SOONER THAN U THINK JUST GET USE TO IT MY FRIENDS.

What if you don't like the styling of Lexus cars?

And I'm not a big fan of styling of Japanese cars.

Have you noticed the way Japanese cars are attaching the rear bumpers, it's the same on the new LS460, MDX and G.

In 2005 Lexus sales outside USA were of ~90 000 units vs. ~ 857 000 units for BMW.

How are they going to become no. 1 soon considering such a handicap ?!

And they still haven't made one trully decent car for the european market.

Ah! an old article, I wonder why it was posted? A froggy future?? That's amazing. Some people spend too much time trying to put down Lexus, grow up huh. Lexus isn't going any where and the future is quite clear.

I was not bashing Lexus. I just found it to be an interesting (if dated) column about Lexus's sales balance. I'm sorry if it offends the Lexus fans.

I didn't realize it was dated- it was among Inside Line's top ten most popular columns.

Do I spew German crap, Will?

Do you see me posting bullshit like "The BMW 3-Series totally owns the Lexus IS anywhere anytime."

Do you see me saying shit like that? No. I give credit where credit is due.

What???

Where did I say I was annoyed?

And, like BMW530i, I just don't do that. There are definitely some on this site who do- but don't profile me with them, please. I at least take you seriously.

I think Lexus makes a very nice car. They're just not for me.

^ ^
BMW & Audi are both attacked daily aswell, the only difference between them and Lexus is...People attack Lexus becuase the company mimicks the real mecoy...Audi, BMW, & Mercedes

Oh so that is the reason, I thought Lexus constantly gets attacked because it isn't German. Hmmm, now I know something I didn't know before.

Sorry, but Lexus does not "mimick" any of these manufacturers. Their cars are quite different, their customer care is far superior and their reliability- well, lets just say they are in a league of their own.

"their customer care is far superior and their reliability- well, lets just say they are in a league of their own."

This is coming from...

1. A Lexus salesman

2. An Audi-owner

Have you ever had any problems (serious issues) with your A4? I sure haven't with any of my cars.

This is another problem with the readers of this site. Most of you Audi owners tend to use personal experience to determine the reliability (although that might be good for you, it is not a good estimate for the industry). Lexus on a whole (not just a couple of cars) is much more reliable. Your Audi experiences may have been great, but on an average more Lexus owners have better reliability experience than Audi owners (So when buying a Lexus there is a better chance - much better - that the owner will get an extremely reliable car).

Also A4 is the Audi with the best reliability.

Saw the LS460 today, pretty nice looking but about the same as the competitors.

That article is over a year old. Why are you posting it now???

Because I didn't realize that when I posted it. Gosh, why does it even matter?

It's still on the top ten most popular columns at Inside Line.

You guys tend to forget that Lexus is still a young brand compared to Mercedes(100+years) and BMW (50+Years),and Lexus has come a long way in a short time(1989)....

In the USA.

The greatest expansion in the last 15 years is atributed to Audi.

They've managed to close in on MB/BMW in Europe and surpass them in China.

They also have more mass selling products in their pipeline.

Audi officially sells more cars in Europe than BMW/M-B-- this year.

I think Audi and Infiniti have both made huge strides.

2JZSoarer-

BMW is 93 years old (est. 1913)

Audi is 96 years old (est. 1910)

Mercedes is 110 years old (est 1896)

There have been hurdles along the way. Audi has the edge in Asia and Europe, BMW has it in North America (and the world), and Mercedes has a massive image that blankets most markets.

What I feel is that there hasn't been one Lexus since their conception that could be called a "classic car" or go in a museum. None of them have been very memorable or introduce something big into the auto industry. I can say with confidence that Mercedes-Benz has the most classic cars of any manufacturer in the world, with all the other European brands and a few Americans trailing behind.

Young,but it was born to a leader/king.TOYOTA.
Lexus is a born leader.

JUGNU

Actually not.

Because they haven't made one product that can trully challege the germans on a global scale.

Because the premium market needs a diferent aprach from the average joe segment.

That's why Lexus teamed up with european luxury fashion/lifestyle marques and sends their people at to study BMWs plants modus operandi.

Because they don't know how to do things, and they learn or at least want to from the masters, the europeans/germans.

Lexus is a born study_and_copy_the_leader company.
When they'll trully get it, and change their ways quite
radically is when they'll be able to challenge for leadership.

Until then, back to the drawing board.

I'm adding to DarkOneForce's post...

A repeat:

What I feel is that there hasn't been one Lexus since their conception that could be called a "classic car" or go in a museum. None of them have been very memorable or introduce something big into the auto industry. I can say with confidence that Mercedes-Benz has the most classic cars of any manufacturer in the world, with all the other European brands and a few Americans trailing behind.

Is L finesse taking Hofmester kink from BMW
and profile 5er profile ?!

The problem is that Lexus just hasnt had the time to prove itself...given time maybe. They have a brilliant marketing arm that has convinced many US consumers that they are the real mccoy. The problem I have currently is the styling is non discript, safe, and too 'japanese', they don't have an identity of their own. Its not a matter of copying, its developing a design theme that you stick to and not worry too much about individual models.

Another thing..Some of you point out smallest and tinest faluts about a Lexus. ie copying, heritage, years been on market ... list goes on.

Get REAL, folks.

The FACT is..its all your opinion and I do respect your opinions whether they are biased or something you pullout of yourasses. But, when you start rambling crap out of your asses to try so hard to make Lexus sounding like your average Buick..that's where you are wrong my friend. Lexus are not here to compete with MB or Audiwagons..Lexus's goals are set for control or massive market..sort of domination. Lexus are set out to grab a massive market appeals and have succeded IMO. You little brains think Lexus are being built to compete but that is where you are wrong. Lexus are being built not to compete as in German 3..instead they are being built to truely redefine a what a luxury car should have been and should be.

You German car kids, sighting is small as a keyhole. Look outside of the box. Lexus are expanding at a faster and faster pace..by means of success as a whole, not individual models with a fancy doorknobs. The Lexus is focused on a much much larger scale is what, I'm sayin. Germans are making a big mistake right now..b/c their models are bitch slapping each other (MB vs. audi vs. bmW) and making each other look silly while Lexus is actually making STRIDES in car making and service for us. Fact is Germans are a narrow minded goldfishes in a bowl. They build machines. Lexus builds cars for people. Take a look at the connection of the feeling you get with a Lexus. Lexus is re-inventing the market. That is the where Lexus go from here, got it?

Sheepdog (pissed off)

Another, another thing...

Lexus doen't compete againest each other..don't need to..their philosophy is correct for they compete for the Customer based and satisfaction. The Lexus has much much larger goal in the world of Luxury car making. Its you pinheads with DSG gearboxes missing out the entire world markets shifting due to your total ignorances. So damn focused on VW and DSGs..while Lexus Giant has just flown over your little brain buckets..That's right. Lexus has everything planned and layed out and moving into the right direction. The process has begun and contiues to be success..the process is the domination of the luxury automarket, as, I'm repeating myself again, sorry.

In finally, Lexus will deliver a knockout punch..its not if. Its definetely when and it'll happen. (but some of you still won't wake up and smell the coffee and be arguing about VW dsg gear boxes and how my car can shift faster than your car crap).

That is my 2 bucks and I'm sticking to it.

Even though this article would be considered ancient in automotive time, it still does have a point , bimmer and mercedes sell hatches in europe , which lexus doesnt , also mercedes and bimmer are internationally reconized unlike lexus , BUT there is hope for lexus since they are supposedly making a BS model coming in 2010 thats supposed to combat with the one series and a/b class , and maybe theyll be a bs 400h which will share the hybrid system with the pruis making it the worlds most fuel efficent luxury vehicle

Well said nicehomer!!!
Lexus4life!!

Great posts nicehomer.
Well one issue is left which is raised by many german fans that nobody knows LEXUS outside US.

German guys say that Lexus have no identity outside US.Which is compleltely wrong.

Have u ever been to Asian countries,go to middle east/gulf regions and u will find tons of them.

Even India(world's second most populated country) is also one of the fastest growing Car market in the world.90% celebrities and rich people buy Lexus there.Especially the LX470 SUV.

There are more than 500K LEXUS today on the Indian roads.And they r not old models like most MBs there,they r from 1998 onwards.

Lexus represent it's owner's wealth and status in most part of the world.It's rapidly becoming the Sign of wealth and status all over.

JUGNU

nicehomer I LOVE U MAN U MY HERO. germans are little helpless goldfishes in a bowl,Lexus is the piranha.

DarkOneForce: "Because they don't know how to do things, and they learn or at least want to from the masters, the europeans/germans.

Lexus is a born study_and_copy_the_leader company.
When they'll trully get it, and change their ways quite
radically is when they'll be able to challenge for leadership.

Until then, back to the drawing board. "



DOF, where do you get this idiotic crap? it is nothing but ignorant stereotype falsehoods.

the dumpkofs who DON'T want to learn, and have little or NOTHING to TEACH modern car makers, are the Europeans/Germans!

for proof, read "The Machine that Changed the World; the $5 million, 5 year study of the world automobile industry sponsored by M.I.T."

germans, so PROUD of their "Craft" production system, did not even adopt the Mass Production system until the 1930s.

toyota developed the Lean system, which made Mass obsolete, in the '50s and '60s. it has since become the current state of the art in auto (and other) assembly plants.

Mass production system was not superceded by Lean systems until the 1980s in u.s. Even later in europe, slow to go just from Craft to Mass system.

the Lean system is what enabled toyota to offer "quality at NO cost." and why even corollas are BETTER BUILT and more reliable than 7s and S-Class.

this may be SHOCKING to you, and others. but it is the TRUTH.

(build quality and reliability is NOT = quality of materials.)

even the American industry learned quicker than the Europeans and Germans. "If you can't beat 'em [japanese quality system], join 'em."

Mercedes itself has admitted, they are FIVE YEARS behind lexus. it is THEY who must learn from the japanese.

Here is a question that came to me as I read the postings or maybe more of a statement.. If Lexus really wants to be the best why is it trying so hard to be number one in sales.. Why design something that everyone is going to like but not love. What I get from Lexus is its a up scale Toyota not that its a top of the line maker. When I look at a Lexus 5 minutes later I can't remmeber what it looks like. there is no daring styling to speak of. If you want to be the best you don't care if your number one in sales but you care if every car you put on the road is the best in design and the best in build.. until they can design a car and put it out there and people take it for what it is and not what the company is then they have done the car right. Who really cares if it says BMW or MB or Chevy for that matter.. what should matter is that the design stands out and makes a statement for what it is.. and not to say they don't have nice cars but I don't see anything they make that makes me go I have to have one of those or I will die.. just my thougths

Oh and what I do see in Lexus is the guy who drove a Toyota 10 years ago and now can afford more is driving a Lexus.. I don't see the guy driving a 911 trading it in for a Lexus... he is trading it in for a MB or BMW. Lexus seems more of a; want to be here rather than we belong here. Its like the kid brother thats taging along.. its not to say he wont be there one day but today he is just tagging along. Until lexus stands out more and builds a car with passion who cares.. its just another over priced Toyota...

austintyson, from your comments it is obvious you are mostly impressed by how a car LOOKS, rather than its underpinings.

styling is a very subjective thing. you seem to have a bias towards euro designs. fine. others prefer american designs. still others (in increasing numbers) appreciate asian. people with strong feelings in their preferences will rarely switch preferences.
nonetheless, ALL major camps constantly borrow design cues from each other. despite claims of "copying," all have unique styles, and all BORROW cues as well.

going below SURFACE appearances, toyota --to say nothing of lexus-- already is THE leader on the planet, with regard to engineering and quality control, and DURABILITY of product.
honda is a close second, sometimes squeaking ahead (as in their formula one race program, where euro teams also have an edge.)


for street cars, the germans still retain a SLIGHT edge in suspension design, and diesel engines. at this stage, those factors, and PERCEIVED image seem to be their major (only?) advantages. in quality, they trail the american as well as the asian car makers.

the lexus line, despite your impressions, is actually a MORE EXCLUSIVE brand than mb, audi, and bmw. the latter three are FULL LINE manufacturers, who make many entry level models in the 2.0 liter and less class. these models' direct competitors come from toyota.

lexus makes no models with engines smaller than 2.5 liters, and MOST are 3.5 and larger. there are NO lexus "economy cars."

regardless of what you believe a 911 owner would buy for a sedan, there are many mb and bmw owners who trade to lexus when they get tired of high maintenance needs.

even in germany, japanese brands have high owner satisfaction rates.

Apexalex is right, Lexus is a more EXCLUSIVE brand of luxuy cars than those Germans, so lexus haters get real, its so funny to think that these german brands chase each other as if they all get paranoid on how to match (if not copy)a competitor's new model (i.e. MB B class will soon have A BMW equivalent, not surpising if AUDI will join the band wagon later hahaha!) So funny there's even the 1 series w/ an AUDI counterpart! Atleast Lexus Just provide an S or 7 or A8 beater and perfected it through the years, and not for a night unlike the mentioned german models above hahaha! Get real!!!!