Is the LS460 a "Drivers Car"?

Buying germany cars are for people who has nothing better to do just to hang around at the service department for the free donuts. YES germany cars are for driving enthusiasts I TOTALLY AGREE whenever the car is in the shop 364 days out of 365, so what value do u get when u only get to drive the car only once or twice a year ? However on the other hand Lexus are for consumers who are smart with their money, who actually has a life outside the service department.

Interesting I never had any car in the shop for 364 days out of 365.

You know, you Japanese fanboys are starting to annoy me with all your reliability bullshit. So we all know German cars have taken a hit. It happens. The Germans can improve and to me, they've already improved their quality, greatly.

My S550 has been flawless and I've had this car for nearly 7 months now. I am satisfied as can be.

The Infiniti FX35 of my wife however has been in the shop thrice already for a fuel pump problem. Three times the same problem in 2 months. Then there was also the issue of the rear brake lights not functioning properly.

I've owned many German cars in the past, and contrary to what CR or JD Powers claim, they're not that unreliable. Stuff breaks or goes bezerk on every car.

Obviously very uniformed people here. Lexus lost the top quality spot to Porsche and in fact have fallen even below Subaru. This article is just the way it is hate it or love it. Lexus does not make a car for true drivers. They make really nice traveling living rooms.

I'll have to disgree a bit with agent 009 here. The real 'big mistake' was COMPARING the E63 AMG to the new Lexus LS460. Those cars aren't even in the same class. The E63 AMG is in the high performance division of Mercedes. The AMG cars are specifically designed to much more performance oriented. The Merc E63 AMG engine alone pumps out over 500HP, not mention the AMG brakes and interior design. The base price of the E63 is over 20 GRAND more than the base LS460(85k vs. 61k). The LS460 should be directly compared to the Mercedes S500 to be a fair comparison.
Lexus as of yet has not officially released any high performance division to compete with Merc's AMG and BMW's M, although rumors swirl daily on the subject.
Lexus from the begining has marketed towards older drivers who place luxury ahead of performance. That method has made them the #1 luxury nameplate in the US. They are obviously trying to be more performance oriented now, but NOT AT THE RISK OF LOSING THEIR EXISTING CUSTOMER BASE. So, they can't make their newer cars too performance oriented. They have to still reserve that element of 'soft ride' in their cars.
I was at the South Florida Auto Show last month and saw both the new ES and LS in person. I don't think the two vehicles look as alike as agent 009 says. The new LS has eye catching style, more distinctive features, and much more presence than the ES. A lot of people at the auto show felt the same way. I saw fathers calling their kids over just to look at the new LS while it was rotating on the moving platform.
To say the ES looks like the LS is like saying the Audi A4 looks like the A8(it's basically a bigger, longer A4), the Mercedes E500 looks like the S500, I mean....if you're in the same family of cars, there's gonna be similarities.

Sorry, but the similarities are just too close to the parent Toyota. I have a hard time seeing the difference between a Camry, ES, IS...again, the designs are safe, and it works for them. Nothing wrong if its working but the appeal is lost to those of us who want more than just reliable transportation.

houstoncutie, Lexus is an AMG of Toyota.

"The Truth About Cars" is a weird site. The flamers write the articles, and then the posters try to make sense of the wild accusations with smart commentary.

I know Jay Shoemaker quite well- as a matter of fact I was with him on Thursday as he drove this LS. He has never liked Lexus, and never will. He has bought several German cars from me. I am discouraged that he used OUR car for this review, and under the pretense that he may be interested in buying the car.

Mitch

np bro.

Jay Shoe is snotty 'cuz he's NOWHERE in the league of Michael Schumacher as a true sporting DRIVER. just as mb and bmw are NOWHERE in the same league as toyota --much less lexus-- in RELIABILITY.

so he picks on stuff that only 20yr old auto "enthusiasts" could care about.

How are you guys able to find "news" articles that are always just a bit more moronic than the previous one?

It takes a lot of effort

But it keeps us coming back to battle it out, good strategy...

Now that's sad Agent009.
Some people will never ever accept LEXUS brand.Well if u don't like it don't buy it.That's all from me.

BTW great post DAVE.

JUGNU

Lexus is an excellent brand, we believe in reporting all sides of a viewpoint.

I actually have had a Lexus in the stable twice. They are reliable cars, and also a very "safe" car from the marketing perspective. To a wide range of buyers, safe works for them. After all a car is to many of the buyers is the second largest purchase they ever make. The fear of gambling on the potential of an issue with a major purchase is simply too great to contemplate..

Many consider the car an extension of themselves. Many of these demand more in the form or performance and styling, these are the ones who sometimes have an issue with Lexus. After all, if you are going to “classify” yourself, wouldn’t you want to standout in the crowd?

Both companies (MB & Lexus) approach the same audience from opposite corners, and both companies are very successful for it. One is somewhat conservative, but an over performer, the other is more of a middle of the road design that performs well but is a safe bet as well..

Stupid and bias review, obviously.

Stupid, a completely stupide comparision. I'm realy sorry Agent009 nothing against you but thsi comparision is one of most ridiculous i've read. This comes from poeple aho cannot admite that LEXUS is producing great cars as MB, BMW and AUDI do! Each os them has it's own character, AUDI id different than BMW. Could we say that it's a POS? NO not agree. Never you can find the same feeling as MB in a BMW? So Which one is a POS? No non of them. Trying few times all of thos brand i can tell that we cannot fide the LEXUS feeling in any other of thos brands. But they are also fantastic. LEXUS for sure is burning the German car fans. I wonder realy wonder as a german to see how some are narrow mind and fanatic on German brand.
Do these peaople mean that only German car have the right to exist? The reviwer is truly a LEXUS hater and he exgerate alot.

I have posted articles where the outcome is the opposite, and you had no issue with that as far as I remember.

But you have to remember to each there own. For every negative review on the 460h there are probably two or three positive. So in the end it all balances out.

I have seen the new lexus LS460 and have a 07' gs450h myself. Lexus cars in general are boring & dependable, which to many is a good thing. I am going to get rid of my GS and get a S550, not because I want to go fast but I want a instant recognition car. The Lexus cars all basically look the same and only autophiles like us know the difference.

The rear of that LS460 in that photo reminds me of a SAAB.

For those that voted against me, please take a second and look at the rear of this SAAB and tell me there isn't much difference between the Lexus and the SAAB.

http://www.carsweb.nu/images/saab-9-3-convertible-1.jpg

Whichever drugs you are taking get off them quickly before it causes permanent brain damage that is unless its too late?

The car still looks like the SAAB from behind, anyway you look at it.

lol

They do this beacause they feel that their indentity in threated. This kind of article and exageration kills it's credibility in advance! Remebers me those fanatics that think their religion is the only one and nobody else should not exist if he/she is not like them.

because its an OPINION..if you disagree, then prove him wrong by writing something that adds to the argument instead of moaning about his right to an opinion...

Will,

I am somewhat responsibe for this clown review (see above) and I am sorry. I suppose Jay could have found somewhere else to drive the car if I had refused, but I feel bad just the same.

Mitch,
OMG...get over it!!!
I know you need to sell cars, but you sound like a drama queen.

Ben- I have no trouble selling cars- thank you.

"The LS 460 is for people who hate cars. "
Wise comment ! ! ! !

Although, I wasn't stunned with the look of the LS , but the luxury ameneties, quality and reliability of this brand is great. For those reasons, I wouldn't mind buying a LS when I reach 50-60. What I really like to see is Lexus starting a performance line, and adding coupes and new convertible to there existing line.

This article is so funny! for obvious reasons...

Cars are made for different reasons and for different tastes. I can see why a lot of people might find the E63 more of a driver's car and that is their reason for buying one. Others seeing how an E63 is far less reliable than the Oscar Meyer Weinermobile might avoid it.

To each his own, but lets stop posting these silly opinion pieces written by those who like to openly display thier ignorance.

I remember when Autospies was where I would go for ridiculous rumours and silly concept "art" of future models. Let's get back to that kind of stuff please.

I think 009's comments are true to a degree, Lexus is going after a more plush, softer ride, THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. I am sure the demographic they are after wants precisely that. The design goes right along with that theme, safe, nothing to 'out there' that would cause loss of sales....and you know what? Its working for them! They are selling more and more to exactly the people they are after, and if the demographic holds, it might just be people who hate to drive! There are obviously a few of you who disagree, that is just fine, but you are in the minority. For you guys, Lexus attaches the word PERFORMANCE to a few models and that should make you happy but the overall direction is set, like it or not.

We all have our own opinions, and it is difficult gaurntee that they are not biased too. I also like to read others opinion even if they don't come in agreement with mine. However, I don't understand why we can't get over a discussion about something that is pretty obvious.

what the heck is IS350 and upcoming LF-A? Marksuck?

This car is either an automotive first or a complete disgrace. For me, it is the latter. It is the equivalent of a magic carpet. Some people might disagree. Every one to his own.

Will,

Jay Shoemaker has nothing to do with "Thetruthaboutcars"- He is involved heavily in the film and wine industry and is an executive with Francis Ford Coppola. Evidently you can submit articles there if you are a member.

Mitch

FYI-
The latest Audi A4 (RS4) look that you speak of was released 2years before Honda put out the updated civic design. So if there are similarities, I think Honda is the guilty party.

For the driving enthusiasts, the LS460 is not even close to a drivers car when compared to Audi, Mercedes or BMW. It would be nice to Lexus start to do somethings on their own instead of cribbing from the Germans.

With the exception of the IS, there is no Lexus drivers car out there. Even the IS isn't such a drivers car when compared to the BMW 3-Series or even the Benz C-Class. Does the IS350 offer a stick? No. That makes it a no-no for enthusiasts.

I would go as far as saying that the IS250 is the better drivers car than the IS350 because you can at least get it with stick.

The IS350 the perfect drivers car? I have to disagree.

Enthusiasts want one thing: control of the car. You get the most control of the engine through a manual transmission. Paddle shifts to me are still computer operated and hence "automatic".

The IS250 is the better drivers car than the IS350. It needs more power though.

"The IS350 is a perfect drivers' car."
except for the fact it doesn't handle.
the fact it has an auto gearbox.
the fact it's softly sprung.
ignore that and it's a drivers car.

its not a bad car, its a damn good one, but lexus just don't do sporty. they don't need too, and i praise them for that, mercedes mucked up their ride when they went sporty, now they're going back to luxury.
there's nothing wring with lexus, or their aim, but to say they are drivers' cars is wrong. they've made a ton of money NOT being drivers' cars, why would they change!

Will, I was drinking the kool-aid until you put the word person in quotes. People are the top of the ladder, not in service to a machine, no matter how smart. I wish I believed you felt that way too.

As to your post, I would certainly welcome an automatic that held the gears like a manual. That's the next frontier, hopefully, 'cause even Audi's DSG is guilty of shifting on its own.

WOW!!! I guess Lexus outdid themselves once again....in the boring department.
This must be the most expensive boring car EVER.

Lexus "The passionate pursuit of boredom"

IM AMAZED WITH THE AMOUNT OF HEAT LEXUS FORUMS CREATE.
JEEEESUS ITS HOT IN HERE

You know why some people on these boards bash Lexus?

I'll tell you why.

Because there are a lot of Toyota/Lexus fanboys here who are either BIASED, BLIND and IGNORANT. What do they do? Look at HOUSTONCUTIE for example. Obviously someone who wants to spark flame wars.

Then, we have the German fanboys who do the same things as stated in my above post. Welcome to Autospies...

Back to the list again, I had thought it started with Lexus as #1 and then had Mercury and Buick following.

I really wish they would set a minimum age limit for this fricking place. I went to a small auto show over the weekend and had the chance to see the new LS in person.. It's a beautiful car - interior quality is fantastic, leather has a nice creamy-soft-buttery feel. It has great body lines, great features, I think it's a great new car packed with technology and is a good alternative to a BMW, MB or Audi.

Whomever wrote the above article is an idiot. Why in the world would you test drive an E63 and then a standard production vehicle? That's like going to test drive a Miata, then sitting in your kids barbie powerwheel convertible and comparing the two. The E63 is a speed / drive hard vehicle; you should test drive a standard E and then drive the LS.

As for the other article comment on not being able to tell an ES apart from an LS, perhaps in the future you can try opening your eyes and looking at the two. There are big differences, the first being the size -- kind of hard to mistake them.


Autospies, if you would like me to write articles for you please let me know. I am not stuck on a certain brand, I only comment on what sits infront of me.


I'm going to go get a cup of starbucks followed by a bottle of water and compare the two.

No, you should drive an S-Class or 7-Series and then drive the Lexus. The E-Class is a class lower.

The Lexus LS 460
"will be" ranked
Most Appealing
Premium Luxury
Car as the all
previous LS models.
Mission accomplished. Service. Loyal Customers. Safety. Performance. Ergonomics. Styling. Technology.
Innovation. Styling. Reliability. Dependability.

that's why we have sheeps, goats and chickens, huu. Perfect for E63 types of ppl.

sheepdog

Huu,
I'm pretty sure you're Asian...you of all people shouldn't be making micro-penis jokes.

Nicehomer,
It sounds like you have a lot of experience with sheep, goats, and chickens.

The same can be said for buyers of the LS460.

Face it, luxury is all about showing off.

Well, as it IS just an opinion, it is biased. Instead of using insults why not add to the discussion and write something interesting...small penis size would have little impact here, but I wouldnt know.

OH MY FRIGEN GOD.
Everyone on this website has too much damn time. Look at how much everyone wrote. Get a job!

Someone should slap who ever wrote this article!!!
All the Lexus vehicles look better than the dated E-class!!!

You're joking right?

He's a troll, ignore him.

Saw the LS460 a couple of days ago. Not bad, but about the same as the competition in terms of presense. I would definately take the E63 over the LS460. BTW, was AutoSpies down the last couple of hours???

Saw the LS460 a couple of days ago. Not bad, but about the same as the competition in terms of presense. I would definately take the E63 over the LS460. BTW, was AutoSpies down the last couple of hours???

Saw the LS460 a couple of days ago. Not bad, but about the same as the competition in terms of presense. I would definately take the E63 over the LS460. BTW, was AutoSpies down the last couple of hours???

Saw the LS460 a couple of days ago. Not bad, but about the same as the competition in terms of presense. I would definately take the E63 over the LS460. BTW, was AutoSpies down the last couple of hours???

Whoops, the computer/site was slow.

Wow! For a Lexus to create this much buzz, whether positive or negative, means that they have somehow shaken the industry.

E63 vs LS 460. Why? Just one word: bias. There is nothing more. If you want to do these types of comparison lets include these as well S-class vs. M5. 7-series vs. S6, etc. I just don't want to say anything more because the comparison of E63 and 460 is just a waste time.

Oh if some people are interested in comparison's like this Motor trend has 'em all beat I believe they compared a Mini against a hummer.

Hi folks, this is Jay Shoemaker, the author of the article in question. First off, I would like to mention that I have owned five Lexus in my lifetime and even enjoyed some of them. Next I would like to point people to the masthead of TTAC to see that I am listed as a staff writer for the site. Finally, I would like to say hello to MitchatLexusofMarin and thank him for the test drive; unlike what you think, I would have purchased the car from you if I had liked it.

Thanks Jay,

I did notice that you were a staff writer after my initial post.You know that I have always had a fondness for you and have enjoyed our many encounters throuout the years, but I did feel that you were predisposed to not liking the LS460 and it shows in your dramatic descriptions. Further, we drove like 5 miles! We didnt go Lucas Valley or even Wolfe Grade... We need to have you drive the first Touring when it arrives.
Mitch

Lucas Valley? Should've drove the roads by Skywalker Ranch. Those are fun!

A five mile test drive barely gives you enough time to get the seat how you like it.

Who in their right mind would compare these two cars and then judge them? They're not even in the same class.

The E63 AMG is hands down the sportier ride. No doubt it'll outhandle and outperform the LS460. It's lighter and it was made for sporty driving.

The LS460 will distinguish itself through comfort and possibly more luxury. The LS weighs more and was not designed to be thrown around corners like an E63 AMG.

Fact is, both these cars are the farthest things from what you'd call a drivers car. As BWM 530i said, a true drivers car needs a manual transmission. Both don't have that. As sporty as the AMG is, it remains loyal to the AMG philosophy of offering a more potent Mercedes' with better handling and performance but it is not really a drivers car.

I drove the LS 460 as a possible addition to my garage, which already includes an E63. I would be switching out of these cars routinely, so I would be making this comparison whether I wanted to or not. Are you saying that the driver of one would not likely be attracted to the other?

If this guy couldn't tell an ES from an LS, then he has no right to criticize the LS.

"The LS is for people who hate cars"

I love cars and the LS is one of my favorite cars.

If the LS460 was faster than a Veyron and could transform into Optimus Prime some people would still say it was boring.

Some people are just stupid.

lol

It's true. The long-time sport sedan and luxury sedan fans hate Lexus because they aren't what they're used to. In reality, Lexus is better than the old brands like BMW and Mercedes.

In reality, Lexus is better than the old brands like BMW and Mercedes.

How so? Because of JD Powers and CR? Give me a break. Lexus only has reliability and value on their side. That's where they lead. That does not make them better.

Oh, I see your name... got it...

So I am stupid for making the statement Lexus makes boring cars.. well I guess I am not narrow minded like you... I beleive you have the right to enjoy your opinion.. but hey what the hell do I know after all I am stupid because I think Lexus are boring cars... but really, who cars what you think you drive a over priced toyota.. ummm .. just playing drvie what you like, drive what you want but don't call someone stupid for thinking a Lexus is boring.. after all alot of people think its stupid to pay over 30K for a new car!!!!

I just got home from Tustin Lexus and test driving a 2007 Lexus LS 460L in white with the tan interior priced at $82,000 and I'll tell you it is a very nice car and I am considering buying one.

So there, happy Will?

I've recently had a dinner with few of my collegues a few days ago. One of my buddies family had just purchased a new LS460 after throughly test driving all three German cars which obviously includes the Ass Class, A8 and 7-Series. I asked why a LS460? I was told that the purchaser of the vehicle recongnized that the road feel and driving dynamics Germans bolster so much was acutally falling short in comparison to the new LS460.
Now, as you know, I don't bullshit around when it comes to the cars. In honesty..this person purchased LS460 due to the feel of the car and the road, instead of other attributes Lexus brands are so well known for including superior services and Rock solid reliability and quality Lexus has always been known for. I'm not too sure whether a person would have said the same about outgoing LS400 however. LS460, I believe has succeded in improving the driving dynamics considerably and it already are beginning to show. I'm waiting for a comparo and I think LS will easily win.

Sheepdog

Now, as you know, I don't bullshit around when it comes to the cars.

^Yeah right.^

Weren't you the one who was calling German cars POS etc. That's called BULLSHITTING.

Also, your friend who bought the LS460 probably had other expectations. He wanted an isolated ride perhaps. I drove the LS460 too and picked the S550 over it because it feels sportier and just as comfortable.

who use to be the user "e-s-f"?

I understand I am playing to a tough crowd here, but I wonder how many of you have actually driven an E63 and a Lexus LS 460 and can offer an informed opinion about the two? Flame on!

I've testdriven the LS460 but not the E63. Sadly, my input is not appreciated by the Lexus crowd since I ended up buying an S550. Now they think I am flaming Lexus just because of that.

I have had a lot of cars in my life including a few German ones (yes BMW too). I really love cars but according to that idiot, I am a car hater as I bought an LS 460L but I can truthfully say that it is the best car I have EVER owned, bar none. Yes my Beamer handled a little better but it was in the shop every month I owned it. I cannot think that there is very many things that did not fail on that car. RIP, I traded it in on a Mazda after 11,000 miles and a cracked head. I have had a few LS Lexuses and the problems just never materialized - What happened? One BMW = many problems, 5 LS's and basically NO problems - hmmmm. I wonder which company is doing something right?

As an afterthought, the sales figures SAY which company is doing something right.

I can sit here and say Lexus is best if that makes everyone happy. I can say BMW is the greatest.. but really this is how I see it. What ever you like and able to afford buy it. If you like BMW enjoy it. Like Lexus do likewise.. But to sit here and say this and that to prove a point when both parties wont agree is a waste of time.. I haven't really liked Lexus styling. Its to safe and boring to me. But hey if you like it by all means get one. But don't sit there and tell me its not boring because its the way I see it.. its America after all adn I have the right to believe Lexus cars are nice and safe and boring old mens cars.. but that me.. I wont put you down for driving it. I will say Lexus is not the car for me and don't try and make me think it is.

Lexus apologists are so full-of it with reliability. Would they really prefer do drive a Toyota over a Ferrari Enzo because the Toyota is more reliable? I've owned a Porsche and and two Audis. Neither of which has had one single problem. My Honda Accord was the biggest POS I've ever seen though. And on a fundamental level, Japanese cars are orders of mangitude less fun to drive than German cars. The article was right. If you despise driving, buy Japanese.

What is all this rubbish about reliability?? BIG DEAL. It's not like BMW and Mercedes put out junk and the differences are not statistically significant. As a matter of fact my grand father has a horse and buggy that is extremely reliable. But how fun is that. True enthuasist cars will never be as reliable as the family sewing machine. Bottom line--- please do not compare the M and AMG cars to Lexus because that is like comparing a Supermodel to the chubby girl you dated in High School.

the LS 460 is simply the best luxury car, BMW just play it safe to provide with a "sport sedan" coz they think thats what they could do best, just like MB to come up with a soft, comfortable luxury cars, now the LS is just a right combination of the first two, so why bother? You are simly just Jealous of the fact that LEXUS is.. what a real luxury car should be, LUXURIOUS yet SPORTY. All it takes now is to have GWEN STEFANI singing "LUXURIOUS" as the LS passes by to those lex haters, HAHAHA!!!

I just wonder why you just always see Lexus? How bout that unspectacular Luxury car from Volkswagen???? Did that Pheaton whatever made a single mark in the industry???? But its looks good to me but still it didn't even cause any controversy or attention right? Didn't even made your temperature rise, it's just so clear that you're just VERY JEALOUS of the fact that Lexus has beaten even the toughest odds!!!! houstoncutie is right, just live with it! Reality check could help, hahaha!