Should Taxpayers Really Be Funding 48 Year Old GM Retirees?

Retiree and 48 year old are oxymorons. Especially when dealing with blue collar UAW jobs.

Just move to China. We wont miss you

009, why did you use the photo of a BMW driver when posting about General Motors??

While it may be true he now owns a BMW. It is because his UAW retirement pension allowed him to afford one after retiring as a seat installer at the ripe old age of 48. He now spends his days drinking Miller Lite at the skate park worried that he might have to trade in is bass boat for a smaller one.

— Agent009:

> While it may be true he now owns a BMW.

009, do you actually have any sense of humour? :-)


> It is because his UAW retirement pension [...]

The one 1UAW also enjoys.


> [...] allowed him to afford one after retiring as a seat installer at
> the ripe old age of 48. He now spends his days drinking Miller Lite at
> the skate park worried that he might have to trade in is bass boat for
> a smaller one.

Well, what can I say. Should it calm anybody, it's still not bad compared to socialism in Europe!

BimmerMike46, why when I query YouTube for "Lexus crash", I can only find Lexus cars being crash-tested...

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=lexus+crash

... and when I query it for "BMW crash", I can mostly find retards, wankers or criminals crashing their BMWs and killing or hurting innocent people?

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=bmw+crash

Dude, what's with you?

Being pissed at the big 3 and being pissed at the banks aren't mutally exclusive things.

I'm equally pissed off with the unions that crippled the domestic car companies as I am with the bank executives who knew the gravy train they were riding was inherently flawed.

And I'm growing pissed off at people like you who bring up the banking bailout anytime someone is critical of the big 3 and their stupid union system.

1. Management was forced into bad decisions based upon the historically bad deals forced upon them by the unions.

2. You're an idiot.

Cappy, some thoughts:
The Big Three have had some terrible CEO's and upper management over the past several decades. Blame should certainly be placed on their poor decisions.

However, unions are guilty as well. Currently, the Big Three have a completely inflexible workforce. Unlike firms with non-unionized workers, Ford, GM, and Chrysler can't lay off unneeded production workers. Instead, they are forced to carry and pay for this extra baggage. UAW workers also get paid MORE than the markets dictate. If you are a UAW worker, this is great for you (being overcompensated while being guaranteed a job). However, this spells disaster if you are trying to run a financially viable company.

"2. You're an idiot."

The general consensus here on Autospies.

Cappy, that's the best response you can come up with? Do you not agree organized labor (UAW here) severly limits the Big Three's ability to have a flexible work force? GM, for example, has declining sales, but is extremely limited in laying off workers. This does not make business sense. The best metaphor is that the Big Three are drowning and struggling to stay afloat and the unions are weights that are pulling them down.

As for education since you brought it up, I was a business major (double actually) undergrad and now I'm working on my MBA part time. Unlike many of the UAW posters on here who are most likely only high school educated, I do have a good idea of what I'm talking about.

Cappy, you are all over the place.

First you tell me to go back to school. I provided my academic credentials to you and then you tell me to get some real world experience. I've been working in the financial services/wealth management business for five years (I'm 26). It doesn't get much more frontline than that these days. What is your education/work background that lets you stand on your high horse?

The problems have not been remedied. Ford, GM, and Chrysler will continue to have to bargain with a hostile UAW in the future. This is an organization whose purpose is most often at odds with the management and financial viability of the Big Three. The best thing for these companies would be for them to file for Chapter 11. This would allow them to bust both union and dealership contracts and emerge as more streamlined and competitive companies.

You still haven't recognized the unions are at least partially to blame for the current state of the auto industry.

Cappy, do you belong to a union?

Unions there just the victims in all this they thought about asking for 60 dollars an hour to work the line but they said nope we are only worth 40 LOL

You continue to come here and spout off about the benefits of unions and the importance of the big 3.

Yet, in all your silly arguements, you never give an real reason the big three and their unions should still be around.

Yes people will lose jobs, and I feel bad for them. But a seemingly "need" for them to exist isn't enough of a reason to keep them around.

1UAW- Now what if I worked for a company that would let me work for 20 years with the promise to take the next 30 off?

Now then let's say this company goes belly up by paying all of those retirement benefits it couldn't afford in the first place.

If I went to the taxpayer and asked for a bailout in Washington, I would be laughed out of town saying "you knew it was too good to be true, you should have made other plans".

Where is the difference? The UAW and GM (and Chrysler) both hold responsibility for making promises they simply couldn't keep. Most of the time when this happens it is a sad story on the news affecting just a few 1000 people.

In this case it might have been a better option to let them go under, liquidate and sue for damages. At least that way the retirees can get some benefit. For those yet to retire take a look at Nortel, thousands are left with nothing. This is the chance you take, there are no guarantees in life, only proper planning.

009,

You do realize that most state employees fit the description you just gave right?

And the individual states sure as hell are working to get a seat on the gravy train just as hard as GM/Chrysler/AIG is.

— 1UAW:

> "should tax money fund someones retirement"
> ever hear of social security?

They haven't saved enough for 30-year-old farting. Someone (a.k.a taxpayers) has to finance the difference.


> "why would gm want these workers out?"
> so they can hire more for half the amount the current workers make.

Let's have a look at your idea. I am GM. I employ a 48-year-old bloke and pay him USD 100 because 1UAW forced me. Normally I'd start paying him USD 50 and let him work until late 60-ties. Plain and simple saving.


Instead this, here comes your 1UAW's custom logic:

I'll let him retire (and do nothing for 30 years), have to pay him USD 50 (via pension fund) and employ a young one and pay him, say, USD 50.

Still sums up to USD 100. That's Kim Ir Sen economy.

Should tax payers be funding 40 year old investment bankers?

Nope!

Wow, I guess I'm being deboosted by all the investment bankers on this blog.

Chet,

What type of cancer? What kind of chemicals? Did you smoke/drink...? Partly genuinely curious and partly because it would be an easy troll for someone to pull.

These Retirees can suck my nuts...nobody forced you to work for this selfish Company.

Hey Idiot707,

All companies are selfish. They don't employ people for the joy it creates. They do it for the money. That is why companies exist: to make money for either the stockholders of the individual owners.

SCREW THEM!!! LET THEM GO DOWN

I can retire after 20yrs of service in the military with full benefits and thats paid by tax payers....

xlr8, your logic is severely flawed.

Men and women serving in the military are also federal employees so it would make sense their salaries and benefits are paid for by taxpayers. HOWEVER, UAW retirees work in the private (not so much anymore) sector. They benefits should be paid by the firm, not subsidized by the taxpayer.

**Their benefits

That's the point 1UAW, they won't repay it, it's all gone down the drain already. The taxpayers will NEVER see that money again!

I would rather the govt own the failing 3 with my money than give it to them so money will disappear.