Reader responses to the new 5-series design
Faithful BMW fans dissapointed
We asked for feedback on the design of the new BMW 5-series…AND DID WE EVER GET IT!
First let’s start with the results of our survey:
Which car looks better, from the initial photos we've been showing?
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2004 BMW 5-series
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9.8%
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2005 Audi A6
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90.2%
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Does BMW know something we don’t?
We sure hope so for their sake.
Cause it sure looks like, the global sentiment of customers and fans, is that the new design is following in the footsteps of the 7-series and has MISSED the mark again.
Auto Spies Perspective: The Spies will reserve judgement on the car until we see it in person. But trust us, we will DEFINITELY have an opinion to share once we do.
Just as a side note, we have never gotten as much mail on any other subject, as we got on this last week.
Here are some of the best emails:
Dear 001,
First of all many thanks to autospies for their innovative web content. As striking as www.mp3.com project some years ago (who knows the details will understand me here ;)
Now let’s get to the point. To be very short and to avoid annoying personal claims like "I'm a BMW owner for the last 30 yrs" or "I promise I will cross the street for a Mercedes dealer next door", here's my motto: making decision "which car to have" is basically "which BMW to have".
New styling directions from BMW are very controversial to oh-so-many people. But, as many of us have already stressed, one needs to see the car in person, then to see it driving by, then to actually test-drive it to make it's own opinion complete. Let’s take people’s statements seriously only after they pass all three stages: to see in person, to see driving by, to test drive. Or we have time to listen to the cries of spy shots’ viewers?
Let me illustrate this with the current BMW 7-series. When I saw the first pictures it's been quite a controversial experience too. Many have already criticized one at that early stage. Then the time passed by and when I saw a new 7er in person for the first time it was something to remember. I mean I literally still remember the way it suddenly appeared from the right and took the left turn to pass me by. Dignity, style and unique identity were all there. A BMW identity. The other "moment of truth" came when I actually had the chance to test-drive E65. Again, it's been another positive encounter to remember. It was something quite revolutionary but still clearly identifiable as BMW. People also have criticized its iDrive concept. And what?! Look at the latest luxury market concepts or even production cars - best what other companies could do is only a copycat of this BMW's innovation. Sales figures also talk volumes here.
To my view, the only reasonable critic on E65 is about massive list of defects and bugs in the early rolled out version. I know a law office owner in Bremen who had his new 7er taken to the service station 7 times during the 1st year! Any BMW just can’t be released to the public this way. Especially the 7-series. Though, to me those are the signs of the new economy we face. I sincerely wish that people at Munich will be struggling to the last moment when making decisions on “cost saving/quality/reliability” balance.
New 5-series is even a more sensitive topic to me cause it’s my car unlike 7er. Once again, let’s wait and see. Only time will give a definitive answer on who’s right and who’s wrong. So far it’s just a bunch of speculations.
Now let me ask: Why all these angry critics of the new BMW designs use Mercedes S600 as a safe haven or rescue boat in every situation when something is not pleasing their eye? Maybe it’s just a lack of courage to say “I’m too conservative for that” or “I’m not a personality enough to stand apart from the crowd”? Having S600 is so simple after all, ya know… you just join the mainstream audience of this brand to hide behind its well-known and established concept. Or maybe these people are just Mercedes/Lexus customers? And always have been? BMW has never been a mainstream brand. And we love it for that. Others can go to the nearest VW or MB dealer.
And, as a closing personal note, if a person who "owned a BMW for many years" is considering switching to Mercedes (not to say it's a bad make, it's rather an automaker with a different philosophy) so let be it! None will stop you dude. The one who will be sorry is you yourself, not BMW. This is because no other car brand can offer such unique combination of all features and value which BMW owners enjoy. As long as we can enjoy this unique mix when purchase a BMW, Board of Directors or anybody at Munich can sleep well.
BR
Oleg from Latvia
Dear 001,
I think 'MICK-Agent005AA' is right on target about the new 5-Series. BMW will lose millions because of their ridiculous (or make that ridiculously ugly) new design philosophy. After three BMWs, including my current 530i that I really enjoy, my next car will be a Mercedes. At least one German manufacturer knows how to make a well-engineered vehicle that is very easy on they eyes.
Brady
Dear 001,
First, I love the newsletter. Now, in my humble opinion, BMW is dangerously close to putting itself out of business. My father owns the last of the great 7s, that is a 2001 740i, not the ugly stretched version, in classic silver over grey. I owned a 1998 Z3, then a 2001 330 Convertible, and will be taking delivery of my 2003 M3 Convertible in a few weeks, even though I realize that it is soon to be phased out by the upcoming 4 series in a few years. I originally had thoughts of waiting for the new 6 Convertible, but after having seen the latest pictures, am thrilled I did not. The front of the car is just flat out repulsive. It looks like the front of the now defunct Buick Riviera. Lets face it, Bangle should be run out of Munich! He is a disgrace, the only thing bigger than the mistakes he is making in his designs, is clearly his ego. How else could you possibly explain his comments about how sometimes we have to take you where you don't want to go. What a complete fool.
With any luck, by the time I am ready to move on from this M3, Bangle will be gone and BMW will be back to building cars as pleasing to the eyes as they are to the soul.
Thank You and Best Wishes,
John
Dear 001,
To add my $.02 to the mix. BMW not only has gone the ugly route, but is shoving things we don’t want down our throats. The iDrive is a perfect example of R&D expenditure looking for a market. But let’s stick to design as an issue...
First the 7, now the 5 next the 6 and 3. We’ll completely skip the BUTT UGLY Z4. These cars look horrible. Plus, what’s with that X3? Did the Quandt family all go blind at once? Or are they being shown product shots of Lexus, Infinity and Mercedes with the logos Photoshopped over?
So is design what is turning my stomach? Well, now it is but that’s not where things started...
I had a 1998 M3/4. Probably the quintessential BMW – ok maybe the second one (E30 M3 being first). I sold it, and went looking for a new ride. I went to the BMW dealer and guess what I found – sir, you must pay $5000 over list to buy an E46 M3. Let’s not even talk about what it takes to buy an M5! Yes, I could have found a dealer that would give me the privilege of paying list – but only after putting down a deposit and waiting up to 12 months. Forget it.
I went across the street to MB. Got me a nice C at a grand over invoice and haven’t looked back.
I feel that BMW is screwing up on all of these fronts – technology throat shoving (that term needs a trademark!), butt ugly designs and no dealer leashes. Ultimately I voted with my cash. Hopefully everyone else can be convinced to do the same and not just bitch and moan. If we’re lucky, the Quandt’s will dumb the Bungle (SIC), and maybe, just maybe if we’re lucky the designs will be nice again in about 10 years.
Thanks for a great publication.
P (kinda like M but not really)
Dear 001,
I agree with MICK-Agent005AA. Some disgusting details can ruin a whole car, and BMW has become an expert on that field. Their headlamp design on Z8, Z4, 7er, 5er and the trunclid/backside on 7er, 5er are cathastropic. After 20 years as BMW-owner I don't even want to go to my BMW-dealer any more, it's not good for my bloodpressure :-). BMW-cars has never been the most beautiful in the world (perhaps with few exceptions), but I would never buy a car that looks ugly no matter how great it drives. When the difference between driving a BMW or whatever is getting smaller and smaller the design is playing a more and more important part. The lifecycle of a car is several years but BMW make designs as if it was a season-collection. It may sell well the first years but afterwards maybe nobody wants them. Who wear last years fashion clothes?
Best Regards
Zoltan
Dear 001,
I have owned 15 BMW's in the last thirty years. My first was a 2002tii, my
current vehicle is a 2002 X5. I am quite concerned about the direction BMW
design is currently taking. I thought that the new 7 series was the
ugliest car I had ever seen...that was until I saw the Z4. BMW should
realize that with their new styling direction, they will lose loyal
customers such as myself, if allowed to continue on their current design
course. Many of us don't want simplified dash layouts with idrive
controlling everything. It is well known that German manufacturers are not
nearly as talented at making computer controlled electronics work as the
Japanese are. Case in point is BMW's current navigation system. My X5 is
riddled with electronic gremlins, but I put up with it because there are so
many things I like about the vehicle. Dedicated controls for specific
functions are one of my likes on the X.
Another other pet peeve I have with BMW's current thinking is their use of
faux aluminum & titanium plastics in their interiors. It is cheap, and
looks cheap. If I wanted silver painted plastic littering my interior, I'd
buy a Toyota or Saturn. BMW's board of directors had better wake up & deep
six Bangle & his cronies, before buyers like myself inch out of their
showroom doors. If they re-design the X5 in the image of the Z4 or 745,
this will be my last BMW.
Stanley
Dear 001,
First, I commend Auto Spies for the news and info as things develop in the car scene.
My 2002 528 i is coming off of lease now and I will probably buy the car and wait a year or two to get a new 5-er. Was unsure until I got the info on the new 5-er.
Regarding the new 5-er: parts of the design are a bit uncomfortable to me - like no trim on the bumpers or midline on the doors; this is the modern look but may cause more paint damage no matter how careful one is. All in all I think the new 5-er is awesome; the videos and streaming media from last week make a test drive mandatory.
The new 7 I thought was butt ugly; now I see the good and the bad and the problems are being worked out. The Z4 looks cheap and too sharp and chiseled out. Remember though, it is hard when a car comes our to replace a popular car, almost a classic. When the Z3 came out it drew onlookers because it was so new and so "cute." They toughened the car up with the M version and it had been a very popular car. I bet the Z4 will evolve and be very popular as well. The 7-er will go thru revisions as you hinted today in the story about the M7.
All in all I think BMW will continue to lead in performance and handling; perhaps they are just a bit ahead of themselves (or us) in design.
The Mercedes all look the same to me - like they said about BMW - one sausage, three lengths.
Thanks again for your news letter - look forward to a new edition each week. Have you though about a search engine to look up prior stories? Sometimes I member a prior article and have to look through several prior editions before I find it
Best wishes,
mm
Birmingham, AL
Dear 001,
Although I will reserve judgment until I can see the new 5 myself, I am disappointed with the pictures I have seen so far, especially (here we go again) the rear end of the car. On the inside, it is a shame that the dash is no longer angled towards the driver. Although subtle on previous BMWs, this has added to the sporting nature of the cars. As I am not a 7 series driver, I was able to tune out most of the uproar about it's design (with the exception of putting the shifter on the steering wheel column, which I still cannot believe). I do love 5 series BMWs, however, and have owned two E39s, a 1999 528i(s) and currently a 2002 530i(s), both five-speeds. Initially I was going to purchase an A6 after having driven one in Europe; after realizing I could not have a manual transmission in my A6 (this was in 1998, before the 2.7T) I test drove a 528i, and it was all over. Without a doubt, the best sedan I have ever driven and the shape still looks great today.
At least from the pictures, the elegance and grace of the current 5 are gone. Modern, yes; beautiful, no. As much as we like to drive cars, few enthusiasts are not swayed by looks. As an aside, I am BMWs target audience for their new 5 (mid thirties, professional, etc.) and I am not afraid of change, but change needs to be done correctly. There is nothing wrong with being able to look at a car and find it beautiful immediately (the current 5, for example!) vs. waiting for its looks to grow on you.
BMW need not worry that I will jump ship currently, as no other car can fit my needs like my 530. However, I will be content to bypass the new 5 and wait for the redo (or buy a used E39 M5!).
Name withheld
Dear 001,
Commenting on design of the new BMW range, lets not forget that in 1998 when the nice people in Bavaria were about to redevelop the 7-series, Mercedes-Benz had just launched the svelte S-Class, a peerless and almost untouchable saloon, in England anyway. Historically, the blue and white propellor has always faired well with the 5, but didn’t really cut it at the top level of the plutocrats conveyances because it failed to understand what is needed at this end of the
market. Prestige, Style & Performance. The 7-series (a fat, flabby 5-serise to a lot of CEO’s) was not doing it in the showrooms and BMW needed something to simply impress the pants off buyers. I concur that blame should not be placed solely only on Chris Bangle, for he did have more than one option. The fact that the BMW board approved them is no surprise either, and they will eventually take the heat for it. Sadly, BMW have destroyed most of the alternative model sketches and WILL make this one sell (Internal memo) but we may never see the others. It is truly disturbing that the car ever got through the design clinics with Mercedes, Jaguar and Lexus present.
But BMW scored another own-goal (stepped on their Johnson's) because just as the 7 was two thirds of the way through development/preproduction, the 5’s final style was being signed off - BEFORE the 7 took a hammering from the press. So BMW had committed itself to a massive styling campaign off the back of a coupe of design clinics where clearly those invited did not possess 20/20 vision. The Bavarians are now stuck with this family shape for a while while, even so, our Teutonic friends have now started working on the 7-series for it’s 2005/2006 facelift. If sales are truly poor, a complete model change will be brought forward, as BMW cannot afford to loose ground especially when a vast number of clients are leaving in droves, sniggering as they walk out of showrooms. Dealers in the UK are hoping that the 3-litre diesel drives up sales. In some magazines where they are doing like-for-like model comparisons, they are rating (1st to last) S-Class, XJ6, 7-Serise, A8 and LS430. Third place? My God - sacrilege indeed.
Dear 001,
I'm really tiring of your shots at BMW. I have driven 5 series since 1983-10 cars or so. Last 2 have been 540i 6speeds. I was curious to see how BMW could improve on perfection, and they've done it! Compare the new 5 to your shot last week of the A6-give me a break!
I'm also tired of your shots at the 7. You've made your point! I was in my S430 today on a freeway and got passed by a 745i,a pretty good looking car! I've also driven it, and the 745i is superb. In truth though, we'll probably buy another S Class next time.BMW has had a marvelous product line and will continue to do so.
Crawford
It seems that Crawford wants us to publish more positive stuff about the five series. Well, if we actually RECEIVED positive feedback, we would publish it! Unfortunately Crawford, out of about 1000 emails we received regarding this subject, YOURS is the one of the ONLY ones that thinks the look of this new car is great.
001
Dear 001,
I don't understand all of the flack over BMW designs. You guys talk like BMW is headed down the drain when in fact they produce the best cars of ANY automaker. I personally like the design of the Z4. The 7-series, though not the best looking car, has grown on me. If I had the money, I would definitely consider buying one. I consider the current generation 5-series to be a pretty nice design. BMW had to be radical in its redesign first to bring repeat customers and secondly to avoid what happened with the bland design of the 2003 E-class Mercedes. People forget that car manufactures intensely study the market, especially BMW. BMW has a cult following and will not lose sails because of a slightly radical design. I also don't understand why Bangle has to take the rap for anything. He doesn't design the cars by himself.
In conclusion, It is impossible for BMW to please everybody. We must remember that they are in the business of making money. They have to risk something to make a profit share!!
Cameron
Dear 001,
To start, I am a huge fan of your website; its articles, pictures and opinions. However, I feel that most of the opinions that are published are biased. It’s very disheartening to read and hear all of the “nagging” and criticism concerning the styling that BMW has taken. Yes, I am a sales consultant with BMW, but I do have other passions for other makes, and I feel that I can be a great consultant without being negative towards my competition. It is very ironic that there is so much negativity towards the 745 yet sales are up on this model than previous years. At the same time the design of the Z4 is criticized, yet it won “design of the year” by Automobile Magazine and we can’t seem to keep either model in stock. As far as the “New” 5 series, it is definitely of different design, but it could turn out to be a truly beautiful car once it arrives on the lots. To publish only e-mails and statements of negativity towards our brand is unethical. Why not publish some stories or mail of those who are ecstatic with the new design quality? Personally I think that these “new” automobiles are a work of art and dedication. No other automobile company has taken the radical steps to create a product that twists and bends the metal to produce such sharp lines, yet still retain its rigidity and strength, to increase it horsepower, yet still remain an Ultra-Low Emissions vehicle, and have the foresight in their technology to know what our drivers want in an automobile. My applause to BMW for being a “non-conformist” to the mainstream of auto design. When out on the roads today, you can pass a Lexus, Mercedes, or any other highline automobile and unless it has it’s badge, it is very difficult to determine which brand it really is. When passing a BMW or rather being passed by a BMW you can recognize it like no other. For those who claim to be loyal to BMW, why then are you jumping aboard the bandwagon of those who are criticizing us? You should want to stand by your brand and see the next newest and greatest thing BMW has to offer. If you don’t like it don’t buy it, but don’t be upset, when your car isn’t attracting attention, and breaking technological markers like ours do. Yes, there will always be criticism, on anything that is of such stature in our society such as automobiles, and this allows us the freedom to choose what is appealing to the purchaser. All I ask is that your website publish the good with the bad. For those people who aren’t appealed by the new BMW design, so what, don’t drive it and don’t buy it. Guys, keep up the good work in your spying, and I look forward to learn more from you. Thanks for allowing me to vent…..
Cam
Dear 001,
Some thoughts on the new BMW 5 series. The new model will easily exceed sales expectations and break full year records in the 2004 and 2005 model years for several reasons (i.) the current 2003 model looks similar to 5 series produced in the 1980 and 1990s so all the owners of models built in the last 10-15 years will want to switch to the 2004 model, to show they can (ii.) Mercedes E - Series is a big disappointment in styling, and more importantly in reliability - just go to a Mercedes service department and watch all the 2004 E-series coming in for warranty work (iii.) Lexus's GS is dated and the new model may not be out for another year, and even then it will have to overcome a credibility issue - this will take another year or two (iv.) the BMW 3-series has been spectacularly successful and there will be a lot of hairdressers, secretaries, sales reps and others who will want to trade up from their "3s" to the "5". And please don't tell me that sane people really cross-shop between SAAB, Volvo, Lincoln, Cadillac, Chrysler, etc. and the BMW range.
So with success assured for the first couple of years the style really doesn't matter. Personally I detest much of the side view styling (because it looks so heavy from the side, with low skirts and its hideous rear lights which wrap-around too much). BUT as I noted above it doesn't matter what I think about the style. We will have to wait around three or four years to see if the style has staying power. My instinct is that ten years from now people will be talking about BMW's wild design phase which occurred in the first few years of the new Millennium, and how this wild design phase meant shorter BMW life-cycles, higher BMW development costs, and the END OF BMW's INDEPENDENCE. In the short-term BMW should milk the sales momentum for all it can, it will need the cash later to pay for early redesigns of the 7 series, Z4 and 5series and anything else Mr. Bangle and team touches!!!
DB
Dear 001,
BMW should re-hire Chuck Pelly, former head of DesignWorks USA, purchased by BMW and now run by a Bangle appointee. Mr. Pelly would give BMW the internal clout to change directions.
Since BMW vehicles are priced at a premium, they better look like they're worth a premium.
Aperl
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